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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #405623

Re: spreadsheet ergonomics

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On 4/2/17, 5:14 PM, in article ykahvj003ta.yr@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
<owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:

...
>>>> Ok, the looping in the background is clearly kludgy.
>>> 
>>> It's not a kludge.  It's the way it works.
>> 
>> Except as you note, it does not auto-update without you writing such scripts
>> and then you see flashing on the screen.
> 
> The "flashing" is not an artifact, but a message notifying you that
> it's running an external script.  I'm not sure that you can turn that
> off.

Right... it is flashing and jumping up and down screaming for attention even
when you are NOT updating data. That is worse than the damned Mac dock icons
which can jump up and down.

>> Can you even go from table to table
>> and modify them without starting and stopping scripts?
> 
> Yes.  You can click the menu on the xterm and uncheck "Allow SendEvents"
> when you need to edit the sheet.  Then turn them back on when you're done.

But you do not consider this to be a kludgy work-around?

>> And I guess this is where we have a value for your tool to have all windows
>> move together... they are all just separate floating windows, not at all the
>> idea of having a single file with tables there (single file as in that is
>> how it is presented to the user... not interested in what is happening in
>> the background).
> 
> So present it to the user as embedded windows if that's important.

Why not show setting this all up... and I showed setting up my tables.

Heck, we could even have multiple tables each with multiple rows where table
A references B and C, Table B references A and C, and Table C references A
and B. All updating as you want... and sharable.

Would be best to be able to lock columns you do not want changed and to be
able to share it over multiple OSs which Numbers cannot do (well, it can be
shared on the web version, and that is not bad but it is not the same as
having the file locally).

>>>>>> Which contains a bunch of files (at least in this case) and they are not
>>>>>> in any way treated as a single file once they are in a usable format.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> The files might be accessed through a single script, which might be tied
>>>>> to a hotkey or launcher.
>>>>> 
>>>> I am talking about just sending a spreadsheet to someone and letting them
>>>> use it. If it is multiple files in the background (say in a zipped format)
>>>> that is fine -- as long as the end user can just open it and use it.
>>>> 
>>> Why is a zipped format (as in a docx) "fine," but a tarball is not fine?
>> 
>> Big difference: one you simply save and send (or share online) and the other
>> you have to engage in scripting and unpacking and fiddling with (or more
>> work to try to reduce the fiddling with).
> 
> All of that can be scripted so it is transparent.  What do you think
> is happening behind the scenes within a docx file?

The point is one you have to script and set up and have as multiple files
and assume a pretty high level of knowledge on the part of the recipient and
an even higher level of knowledge from the developer... NONE of it dealing
with actually just putting numbers and formulas and charts into a
spreadsheet.

You have to fiddle with a bunch of externals and not just focus on the work.
What I am showing you is focusing on (pretty much) just the work. It is true
the person needs to know the basics of how to turn their computer on, use a
mouse and keyboard (or use the either one to emulate the other, basically),
etc. But all very basic things.

>> But, as I have said, with Numbers you need an Apple made OS (the program
>> comes with it, I think). So that is a pretty big hurdle to jump.
>> 
>> Really comes down to from the user perspective is it one item they are
>> dealing with or multiple?
> 
> As I said, it can be made to appear to be a single item.

Can you show this single item? I will happily double click it on a Linux VM
and we shall see if it is as easy as the simple URL I provided you (which
you can use to download the file, too).
 
>> It is one of the reasons that FM Pro changed their
>> file format so you can have multiple tables in one file... makes things much
>> easier for the end user.

Did you see this... used to be that FM Pro had each table be in its own
file. They then improved things by having them all in one.

>>>>> Documents do not need to be in single files.  Are not docx
>>>>> files themselves just compressed archives of multiple files?
>>>> 
>>>> I believe so. Same with the files Numbers use (you can even open the
>>>> "package" contents and look at it if you care to... but most users have no
>>>> such need ever).
>>> 
>>> And you could have a script in the tarball that does everything with
>>> one command.  For that matter, the tarball itself could be wrapped in a
>>> script. 
>> 
>> Right... all sorts of scripting and working with multiple files. That is
>> what I am talking about.
> 
> You have a primitive view of what scripting can do.

Could be... but how do you think that is relevant? Keep in mind I am talking
about how these things are done -- focusing on the tool itself (the
spreadsheet) or focusing on all sorts of external things such as scripts and
working with multiple files, etc.
  
>>> You criticized my video by saying that I had scripted everything
>>> in advance. 
>> 
>> Correct: with mine I show starting from complete scratch... other, I
>> suppose, than opening Numbers. I even started on a different file and create
>> a new one. NOTHING scripted or pre-made by me. Just jump in and work.
>> 
>>> The thing is, the entirety of what you see on screen is the
>>> result of one small script.
>> 
>> A script you do not show creating... and it means you are not even directly
>> making the product you show. That is sorta my point. :)
> 
> There are multiple ways to edit an sc file.  That's one of its primary
> benefits.  There is no requirment to go through the interactive interface
> at all.  It is an ascii file and can be edited in vim or with a script.
> Depending on the complexity, creating a script can be faster than using
> the interactive interface.

Sure... but it still comes down to you have not shown the full process. And,
of course, you are then moving from working directly with the data to an
extra level of abstraction.

You are right that it is a benefit to have that capability... and while
Numbers can be scripted it would be harder to do many scripting activities
with than with sc. In other words, for THOSE types of tasks, which might be
tied to things such as having preset data you are processing on a regular
basis (as an example), sc would be a great solution.

>>> That script creates all the spreadsheets, the
>>> update script, the gnuplot script, specifies the initial window positions,
>>> and executes them.  There was no manual creation of anything at all, other
>>> than the single script.
>> 
>> Again, that is pretty much my point.
> 
> What point?  That the user should be able to edit a single file?
> The script is a single file.

Has anyone suggested otherwise?

>>>>> X11 forwarding lets people easily access and edit stuff remotely.
>>>> 
>>>> Would love to work with your shared content... just post a link like I did.
>>>> In case you lost my link (looks like it was snipped) here it is:
>>> 
>>> I would let you shell into my machine and do some X11 forwarding,
>>> but you know...
>> 
>> I do... you do not want to share yours because of security risks. Mine is,
>> right now, shared with the world.
> 
> I don't have a hosted server for you to shell in to, but theoretically
> I could mitigate any personal risk by doing so.  I would still be able
> to see your updates locally in real time by shelling in myself.  (The
> same file you edit would be the one that is forwarded to my local
> screen).

I provided such for you with ease... just used the built in sharing tools.
With sc you are right you CAN do such things... though it AGAIN takes a lot
more work outside of the direct task you are working on and assume a higher
level of skill outside of those tasks for the different people working on
it.

Try sharing your solution with, say, 10 people who are not techies. I can do
the same with mine (heck, high school students did with their much more
complex magic spell system for their game). They were each able to access it
and use it as designed with essentially no training outside of which cells
to edit (the blue ones) and what they mean (so they had to know their game
well enough to be able to use the tool for the game).

This means they were able to focus on their task ... playing a game ... and
do (essentially) no training on how to use the computer (they all had basic
skills of web browsing and the like down... most people do these days).

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

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spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-03-31 11:48 +0000
  Re: spreadsheet ergonomics chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-31 09:20 -0500
    Re: spreadsheet ergonomics chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-31 10:07 -0500
  Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-03-31 12:23 -0700
    Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-03-31 23:19 +0000
      Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-03-31 19:08 -0700
        Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-01 05:22 +0000
          Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-03-31 22:50 -0700
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-01 09:23 +0000
              Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-01 09:50 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-02 04:45 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-01 23:34 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-02 08:58 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 08:59 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 00:14 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 17:33 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 01:46 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 19:24 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 04:53 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 10:20 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 19:40 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:17 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 21:24 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:32 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 02:15 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 19:24 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 02:39 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 20:35 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 04:15 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 21:31 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 05:01 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 08:51 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 13:56 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 21:12 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 14:53 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 22:42 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 18:08 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 01:49 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 18:57 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 02:15 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 10:53 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 19:38 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 13:01 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 20:54 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:16 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 02:30 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 20:26 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 04:45 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 09:29 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 20:49 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 14:20 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 22:38 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 18:05 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 01:14 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 18:41 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 02:05 +0000
          Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-01 11:47 -0400
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-01 11:21 -0500
              Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-02 10:44 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-02 15:02 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 13:35 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-02 15:39 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 13:52 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 07:49 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2017-04-02 22:42 +0100
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Joe <Negrojoe@cottonpickers.edu> - 2017-04-02 21:57 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 15:46 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Joe <Negrojoe@cottonpickers.edu> - 2017-04-02 23:00 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 16:10 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2017-04-03 01:24 +0200
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics flatfish+++ <flatfish@cutey.com> - 2017-04-02 19:31 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 16:40 -0700
                Snit digest 386 / 2017-04-03 Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 07:56 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2017-04-03 09:47 +0200
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics flatfish+++ <flatfish@cutey.com> - 2017-04-03 12:17 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 10:57 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 11:34 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 16:34 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-02 19:49 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 18:00 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-02 21:36 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 19:45 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 08:09 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-03 10:43 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 11:05 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 21:08 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-03 16:14 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:18 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 21:29 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:33 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 22:09 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 15:14 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 22:24 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 18:37 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-04 06:28 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 09:03 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-03 19:36 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-04 06:29 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 09:30 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-04 12:06 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 10:45 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 18:00 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:26 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 21:39 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 15:06 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 22:17 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 15:34 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Joe <Negrojoe@cottonpickers.edu> - 2017-04-03 23:07 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 18:10 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-03 21:00 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 19:06 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 08:02 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 11:48 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 21:59 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 15:09 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 22:19 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-04 07:20 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-03 19:48 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-03 21:02 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-04 10:28 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2017-04-04 16:50 +0200
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-04 10:01 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-04 11:37 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Silver-Tongued Heel <sl@im.er> - 2017-04-04 11:56 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 08:56 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-04 11:01 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2017-04-04 17:11 +0100
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 09:34 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-04 12:09 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 10:19 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2017-04-04 23:11 +0100
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 15:19 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2017-04-05 00:34 +0200
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Silver-Tongued Heel <sl@im.er> - 2017-04-04 18:40 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-04 22:03 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 02:49 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-03 23:11 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 20:37 -0700
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-01 09:56 -0700
              Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 10:12 -0700
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-02 05:01 +0000
  Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-04-01 04:53 -0400
    Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-01 08:30 -0500
    Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-02 05:00 +0000
      Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-04-02 09:01 -0400
        Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-02 20:41 +0000
          Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 13:57 -0700
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Joe <Negrojoe@cottonpickers.edu> - 2017-04-02 21:10 +0000
              Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 14:22 -0700

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