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Groups > aus.computers > #73883
| Message-ID | <69d5b884@news.ausics.net> (permalink) |
|---|---|
| From | Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> |
| Subject | Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds |
| Newsgroups | aus.computers |
| References | (6 earlier) <op.3nbu8z15byq249@pvr2.lan> <69d43583@news.ausics.net> <op.3nds39c7byq249@pvr2.lan> <69d58f59@news.ausics.net> <op.3nfp33d2byq249@pvr2.lan> |
| Date | 2026-04-08 12:08 +1000 |
| Organization | Ausics - https://newsgroups.ausics.net |
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote: > Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote >> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote >>> Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote >>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote >>>>> Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote >>>>>> Axel <none@not.here> wrote >>>>>>> keithr0 wrote >>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote >>>>>>>>> Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote >>>>>>>>>> keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote > >>>>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/ai/2026/04/research-finds-ai-users-scarily- >>>>>>>>>>> willing-to-surrender-their-cognition-to-llms/ > >>>>>>>>>> Not surprising at all. It's much the same as all the stories >>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>> people getting stuck somewhere because they blindly followed >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> satnav. I'm frequently bewildered by how willing people are to >>>>>>>>>> offload often important decisions to some perceived authority >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> known failings or ulterior motives, but of course politics and >>>>>>>>>> religion are based on exactly that common willingness. Such AIs >>>>>>>>>> have all the potential to join those as a new major social power. > >>>>>>>>> Just like you do with google > >>>>>>>> Google simply points you to places where information exists. >>>>>>>> Usually >>>>>>>> there are several, you can read and assess the source material, >>>>>>>> instead of just getting a summary usually without attribution > >>>>>>> Google AI gives the sources > >>>>>> I already showed you where it didn't give me any sources > >>>>> Depends on how you invoke it, it does with Gemini > >>>> Nope > >>> Yep >>> https://g.co/gemini/share/0d063966763e > >> Still missing sources for many of its facts. > > More of your lies > >> Weirdly the few source >> links which are on that page won't even open for me in Firefox, >> you click and nothing happens, even though they work in my own >> Gemini responses (when it gives me some). > >>>> Gemini gave me lots of sources for paintings after >>>> misinterpreting my question about "Winter Landscape" by Josef Jahn, >>>> as I posted here earlier. > >>> No you didnt > >> Yes I did, here: <698590f2@news.ausics.net> > > That link doesnt work It's not a link, it's the message-id of my post in the "Google AI is great" thread. You can look it up with some newsreaders if your news server supports that. >>>> Then when I followed up with more >>>> specific questions noting "Winter Landscape" was a tracker module >>>> its answers didn't include any sources anymore > >>> So you lied about no sources > >> Zero sources in the responses to the questions about the tracker >> module, sources were only in the first response when it uselessly >> talked about paintings. > >>>> and it started making things up. > >>> More of your lies > >> More of your lies > >> Here are the key bits again: > >> QUESTION: >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> what year was the tracker module Winter Landscape by Josef Jahn >> released? >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> ANSWER: >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> The tracker module "Winter Landscape" by Josef Jahn was released in >> 1996. > >> [waffle... waffle... waffle...] >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> QUESTION: >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> winter landscape by Josef Jahn release year >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> ANSWER: >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Actually, there appears to be a slight mix-up with the name. The >> famous tracker module titled "Winter Landscape" was actually >> composed by Jogeir Liljedahl, not Josef Jahn. > >> It was released in 1995 (specifically around November) as part of >> the Amiga demoscene. > >> [waffle... waffle... waffle...] >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> As I said before: >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> The module file itself says: > >> Winter Landscape >> (C) 2001 Josef Jahn >> http://www.playspoon.com > >> And if you view the author's long-dead website on the Wayback >> Machine it confirms that it was: "written by Josef Jahn 31 December >> 2001": >> http://web.archive.org/web/20060130235039/http://www.playspoon.com/awf/index.php?id=137 > >> The correct info is also on the modern web at The Mod Archive, >> where their news talks about struggling to keep the site online >> against the waves of AI bots recently scraping it to death. Not >> that it did this AI any good apparantly. Searching "winter >> landscape" there quickly brings it up a single correct result: > >> https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=171297 > >> Where you can see "(C) 2001 Josef Jahn" under "Internal Texts". But >> I guess that's above the intelligence of the Artificial Idiot that >> also got other facts in its waffle wrong, and provided no >> references to check with that response. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> But OK let's try again and see what nonsense it's got to waffle >> about now: >> (I guess you need a Google account to make those permanent Gemini >> answer links) > >> QUESTION: >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> what year was the tracker module Winter Landscape by Josef Jahn >> released? >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> ANSWER: >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> The tracker module **"Winter Landscape"** by **Josef Jahn** was >> released in **1996**. >> Josef Jahn is a veteran of the tracker music scene, particularly >> known for his work in the mid-to-late 90s across platforms like the >> Amiga and PC. His tracks often appeared on "mod" archives and were >> featured in various demoscene productions and early internet radio >> playlists. >> ### Release Context > >> * **Format:** The track was primarily distributed as a **.mod** or >> **.s3m** module file. > >> * **Scene Presence:** Jahn's work from this era is frequently >> characterized by melodic, atmospheric electronic styles. "Winter >> Landscape" is often cited alongside his other popular 1996-1997 >> tracks, such as *"The Wolf Inside"* and *"Deep in the Forest"*. > >> * **Modern Accessibility:** While originally shared on BBS >> (Bulletin Board Systems) and early file repositories like Aminet or >> The Hornet Archive, the track still surfaces today on >> tracker-focused radio stations (like *Ericade Radio*) that >> specialize in 90s Amiga and PC modules. >> --- >> > **Technical Note:** In the tracking community, Josef Jahn is also >> recognized for his contributions beyond music, including his work >> as a developer for tools like the **RF Explorer** Windows client. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> It's back to 1996 for the year, > > Hardly surprising that it doesnt search the wayback machine yet It doesn't need to. It's easily found with a search on The Mod Archive where I linked to the page for Winter Landscape, and probably other mod sites too. Besides if it can't find an answer a useful AI would say that instead of making up facts from thin air and trying to sell them with more misleading waffle. >> and has lots of new wrong waffle >> about it being in .mod and .s3m formats when it's a .it module, and >> talking about Aminet when it's not an Amiga module, and just a >> general wall of made up nonsense with no sources at all. > >> Oh but it does give me one source this time, for this part at the >> end: >> "Technical Note: In the tracking community, Josef Jahn is also >> recognized for his contributions beyond music, including his >> work as a developer for tools like the RF Explorer Windows >> client." >> - cite: >> https://www.scribd.com/document/396728188/RF-Explorer-for-Windows-Release-Notes > >> The cite window shows a quote where the only names mentioned are >> here: >> "(thanks users Shaun O'Sullivan and Stewart Andreason)" > >> Yeah, great work Gemini, it can't even remember the name it's >> looking for, let alone figure out that RF Explorer has nothing to >> do with "the tracking community" (it's a handheld radio spectrum >> analyser device with a PC interface). > >> Besides that, there are still no cites for anything beside its >> "technical note", so you can't so easily tell how irrelevent the >> rest of its info is, including the year I was asking about. > >>>> Doing a web search with the same prompt brought >>>> up irrelevent Wikipedia pages which it was clearly pulling info >>>> from. > >>> So a google search would have failed too > >> Indeed, and you can see that it has failed because all the results >> are obviously irrelevent, including the irrelevent Wikipedia page >> for Jogeir Liljedahl which came up in Duck Duck Go's results. >> Therefore you ignore them and search a specific site like The Mod >> Archive and get an accurate answer. > > So your mindless bullshit about googling being > much better than AI was just that, mindless bullshit No you've lost your mind, I never said Googling was better. Like I say I don't even use Google for web searches. But you can search for specific sites like The Mod Archive and then search on them and get real facts instead of some AI BS. Since that can be a hassle I tried AI to see if it made it easier to find things like that which are harder to search the web for. It's worse, it gives you lies instead. Clearly web searches are better than that, even when they don't find what you're looking for. >> AI on the other hand covers up the failure by waffling on and on >> with all sorts of semi-accurate facts to try and make the response >> sound relevent when actually it's completely away with the fairies. > >>>> Wikipedia isn't a highly trustworthy source > >>> Have fun listing anything that is > >> The release year stated by the author of a work on their own >> website. > > Which doesnt exist anymore It exists enough that I can find it and use it as a source that's more trustworthy than the AI BS. >> Also the text that's part of the work itself. > > Which is hardly ever available with most questions Ha! He gives up. Yes I picked that test question because I knew there was a trustworthy answer available, so I'd know if Gemini gave me another answer then it was wrong, not me. Using Gemini for such things would mean asking questions where I might not be able to easily tell if it's started making facts up like that, and that's a prime reason not to use it! It's evidence that the AI output is untrustworthy and misleading. >>>> even when the pages are_ relevent, > >>> More of your mindless bullshit > >>>> but clearly its content is weighted highly by the AI algorithm. > >>> Its actually weighted by who modifys the page > >> It doesn't know who modified the page, > > That is trivial to check if you want to know that It's not trivial to check which real-world human it was and whether they know what they are writing about. >> it can't even figure out >> the name Josef Jahn doesn't match "Shaun O'Sullivan and Stewart >> Andreason". > >>>> As I pointed out before, a specific search at The Mod Archive >>>> brought up the correct information easily, so it was out there on >>>> the web. Also on the artist's dead website in the Internet Archive. > >>>> But if you trusted Gemini you'd believe its lies instead of finding >>>> the true info yourself. > >>> You don't have to trust, you are free to check the sources it provides, >>> just like with a google search, but with far less farting around > >> Not when it doesn't provide you any sources! > > There you go again with your stupid lie about any sources There you go again with your stupid lie about Gemini always giving sources. >> And when it does, >> checking all those and weeding out the junk to tell how much of its >> answer you can believe is more work than just reading one good >> search result from a decent source in the first place. > > Have fun actually finding that Just because you can't figure out how to use a search engine... -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _#
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“Cognitive surrender” leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-04 21:51 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-05 08:42 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-05 08:59 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-05 14:25 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-05 15:36 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-05 19:20 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 01:53 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Axel <none@not.here> - 2026-04-05 21:20 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 01:55 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 09:47 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 10:22 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-06 08:22 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 09:26 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-07 07:53 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 08:42 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Axel <none@not.here> - 2026-04-06 10:32 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 13:28 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Axel <none@not.here> - 2026-04-06 14:33 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 21:40 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 03:20 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-07 15:27 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 16:48 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 15:42 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-07 08:18 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 08:52 +1000
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Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-06 08:06 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 08:25 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 09:49 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 10:26 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 13:30 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 15:45 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 21:38 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 03:17 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-07 15:29 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 16:50 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Axel <none@not.here> - 2026-04-06 11:38 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-07 08:36 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 09:34 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-08 09:12 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 10:25 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2026-04-08 12:08 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 14:07 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Axel <none@not.here> - 2026-04-06 10:52 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 13:31 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Axel <none@not.here> - 2026-04-06 14:35 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 15:48 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 21:37 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 03:14 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-07 15:31 +1000
Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 16:53 +1000
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