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Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds

From "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Newsgroups aus.computers
Subject Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds
Date 2026-04-08 10:25 +1000
Message-ID <op.3nfp33d2byq249@pvr2.lan> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <69d2dcef@news.ausics.net> <op.3nbu8z15byq249@pvr2.lan> <69d43583@news.ausics.net> <op.3nds39c7byq249@pvr2.lan> <69d58f59@news.ausics.net>

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Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Axel <none@not.here> wrote
>>>>>> keithr0 wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>> keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote

>>>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/ai/2026/04/research-finds-ai-users-scarily-
>>>>>>>>>> willing-to-surrender-their-cognition-to-llms/

>>>>>>>>> Not surprising at all. It's much the same as all the stories  
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> people getting stuck somewhere because they blindly followed  
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> satnav. I'm frequently bewildered by how willing people are to
>>>>>>>>> offload often important decisions to some perceived authority  
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> known failings or ulterior motives, but of course politics and
>>>>>>>>> religion are based on exactly that common willingness. Such AIs
>>>>>>>>> have all the potential to join those as a new major social power.

>>>>>>>> Just like you do with google

>>>>>>> Google simply points you to places where information exists.  
>>>>>>> Usually
>>>>>>> there are several, you can read and assess the source material,
>>>>>>> instead of just getting a summary usually without attribution

>>>>>> Google AI gives the sources

>>>>> I already showed you where it didn't give me any sources

>>>> Depends on how you invoke it, it does with Gemini

>>> Nope

>> Yep
>> https://g.co/gemini/share/0d063966763e

> Still missing sources for many of its facts.

More of your lies

> Weirdly the few source
> links which are on that page won't even open for me in Firefox,
> you click and nothing happens, even though they work in my own
> Gemini responses (when it gives me some).

>>> Gemini gave me lots of sources for paintings after
>>> misinterpreting my question about "Winter Landscape" by Josef Jahn,
>>> as I posted here earlier.

>> No you didnt

> Yes I did, here: <698590f2@news.ausics.net>

That link doesnt work

>>> Then when I followed up with more
>>> specific questions noting "Winter Landscape" was a tracker module
>>> its answers didn't include any sources anymore

>> So you lied about no sources

> Zero sources in the responses to the questions about the tracker
> module, sources were only in the first response when it uselessly
> talked about paintings.

>>> and it started   making things up.

>> More of your lies

> More of your lies

> Here are the key bits again:

> QUESTION:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> what year was the tracker module Winter Landscape by Josef Jahn
> released?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ANSWER:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> The tracker module "Winter Landscape" by Josef Jahn was released in
> 1996.

> [waffle... waffle... waffle...]
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> QUESTION:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  winter landscape by Josef Jahn release year
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ANSWER:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Actually, there appears to be a slight mix-up with the name. The
> famous tracker module titled "Winter Landscape" was actually
> composed by Jogeir Liljedahl, not Josef Jahn.

> It was released in 1995 (specifically around November) as part of
> the Amiga demoscene.

> [waffle... waffle... waffle...]
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> As I said before:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> The module file itself says:

>  Winter Landscape
>  (C) 2001 Josef Jahn
>  http://www.playspoon.com

> And if you view the author's long-dead website on the Wayback
> Machine it confirms that it was: "written by Josef Jahn 31 December
> 2001":
>  http://web.archive.org/web/20060130235039/http://www.playspoon.com/awf/index.php?id=137

> The correct info is also on the modern web at The Mod Archive,
> where their news talks about struggling to keep the site online
> against the waves of AI bots recently scraping it to death. Not
> that it did this AI any good apparantly. Searching "winter
> landscape" there quickly brings it up a single correct result:

> https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=171297

> Where you can see "(C) 2001 Josef Jahn" under "Internal Texts". But
> I guess that's above the intelligence of the Artificial Idiot that
> also got other facts in its waffle wrong, and provided no
> references to check with that response.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> But OK let's try again and see what nonsense it's got to waffle
> about now:
> (I guess you need a Google account to make those permanent Gemini
> answer links)

> QUESTION:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> what year was the tracker module Winter Landscape by Josef Jahn
> released?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ANSWER:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  The tracker module **"Winter Landscape"** by **Josef Jahn** was
>  released in **1996**.
> Josef Jahn is a veteran of the tracker music scene, particularly
>  known for his work in the mid-to-late 90s across platforms like the
>  Amiga and PC. His tracks often appeared on "mod" archives and were
>  featured in various demoscene productions and early internet radio
>  playlists.
> ### Release Context

>  * **Format:** The track was primarily distributed as a **.mod** or
>  **.s3m** module file.

>  * **Scene Presence:** Jahn's work from this era is frequently
>  characterized by melodic, atmospheric electronic styles. "Winter
>  Landscape" is often cited alongside his other popular 1996-1997
>  tracks, such as *"The Wolf Inside"* and *"Deep in the Forest"*.

>  * **Modern Accessibility:** While originally shared on BBS
>  (Bulletin Board Systems) and early file repositories like Aminet or
>  The Hornet Archive, the track still surfaces today on
>  tracker-focused radio stations (like *Ericade Radio*) that
>  specialize in 90s Amiga and PC modules.
> ---
> > **Technical Note:** In the tracking community, Josef Jahn is also
>  recognized for his contributions beyond music, including his work
>  as a developer for tools like the **RF Explorer** Windows client.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> It's back to 1996 for the year,

Hardly surprising that it doesnt search the wayback machine yet

> and has lots of new wrong waffle
> about it being in .mod and .s3m formats when it's a .it module, and
> talking about Aminet when it's not an Amiga module, and just a
> general wall of made up nonsense with no sources at all.

> Oh but it does give me one source this time, for this part at the
> end:
> "Technical Note: In the tracking community, Josef Jahn is also
>  recognized for his contributions beyond music, including his
>  work as a developer for tools like the RF Explorer Windows
>  client."
>   - cite:
>    https://www.scribd.com/document/396728188/RF-Explorer-for-Windows-Release-Notes

> The cite window shows a quote where the only names mentioned are
> here:
> "(thanks users Shaun O'Sullivan and Stewart Andreason)"

> Yeah, great work Gemini, it can't even remember the name it's
> looking for, let alone figure out that RF Explorer has nothing to
> do with "the tracking community" (it's a handheld radio spectrum
> analyser device with a PC interface).

> Besides that, there are still no cites for anything beside its
> "technical note", so you can't so easily tell how irrelevent the
> rest of its info is, including the year I was asking about.

>>> Doing a web search with the same prompt brought
>>> up irrelevent Wikipedia pages which it was clearly pulling info
>>> from.

>> So a google search would have failed too

> Indeed, and you can see that it has failed because all the results
> are obviously irrelevent, including the irrelevent Wikipedia page
> for Jogeir Liljedahl which came up in Duck Duck Go's results.
> Therefore you ignore them and search a specific site like The Mod
> Archive and get an accurate answer.

So your mindless bullshit about googling being
much better than AI was just that, mindless bullshit

> AI on the other hand covers up the failure by waffling on and on
> with all sorts of semi-accurate facts to try and make the response
> sound relevent when actually it's completely away with the fairies.

>>> Wikipedia isn't a highly trustworthy source

>> Have fun listing anything that is

> The release year stated by the author of a work on their own
> website.

Which doesnt exist anymore

> Also the text that's part of the work itself.

Which is hardly ever available with most questions

>>> even when the pages   are_ relevent,

>> More of your mindless bullshit

>>> but clearly its content is weighted highly by the   AI algorithm.

>> Its actually weighted by who modifys the page

> It doesn't know who modified the page,

That is trivial to check if you want to know that

> it can't even figure out
> the name Josef Jahn doesn't match "Shaun O'Sullivan and Stewart
> Andreason".

>>> As I pointed out before, a specific search at The Mod Archive
>>> brought up the correct information easily, so it was out there on
>>> the web. Also on the artist's dead website in the Internet Archive.

>>> But if you trusted Gemini you'd believe its lies instead of finding
>>> the true info yourself.

>> You don't have to trust, you are free to check the sources it provides,
>> just like with a google search, but with far less farting around

> Not when it doesn't provide you any sources!

There you go again with your stupid lie about any sources

> And when it does,
> checking all those and weeding out the junk to tell how much of its
> answer you can believe is more work than just reading one good
> search result from a decent source in the first place.

Have fun actually finding that

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“Cognitive surrender” leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-04 21:51 +1000
  Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-05 08:42 +1000
    Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-05 08:59 +1000
      Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-05 14:25 +1000
        Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-05 15:36 +1000
          Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-05 19:20 +1000
            Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 01:53 +1000
          Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Axel <none@not.here> - 2026-04-05 21:20 +1000
            Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 01:55 +1000
              Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 09:47 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 10:22 +1000
            Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-06 08:22 +1000
              Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 09:26 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-07 07:53 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 08:42 +1000
              Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Axel <none@not.here> - 2026-04-06 10:32 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 13:28 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Axel <none@not.here> - 2026-04-06 14:33 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 21:40 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 03:20 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-07 15:27 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 16:48 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 15:42 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-07 08:18 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 08:52 +1000
        Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Axel <none@not.here> - 2026-04-05 21:19 +1000
          Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-06 08:06 +1000
            Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 08:25 +1000
              Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 09:49 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 10:26 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 13:30 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 15:45 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 21:38 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 03:17 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-07 15:29 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 16:50 +1000
              Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Axel <none@not.here> - 2026-04-06 11:38 +1000
              Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-07 08:36 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 09:34 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-08 09:12 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 10:25 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2026-04-08 12:08 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 14:07 +1000
            Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Axel <none@not.here> - 2026-04-06 10:52 +1000
              Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 13:31 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds Axel <none@not.here> - 2026-04-06 14:35 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 15:48 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-06 21:37 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 03:14 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> - 2026-04-07 15:31 +1000
                Re: "Cognitive surrender" leads AI users to abandon logical thinking, research finds "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 16:53 +1000

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