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Re: Surplus electricity

Subject Re: Surplus electricity
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
References (5 earlier) <4s6cnR7ofOYXJSD0nZ2dnZfqn_iSKDL2@giganews.com> <pcirrklraqo8r1cepjcs3ap48b1n7avnv3@4ax.com> <hFadnU3HX83TRiD0nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com> <q2atrkhb2ptiqamj3gdbbiv2hhgc85tfr1@4ax.com> <T7icnRussI3QVyP0nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com>
From Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date 2026-03-21 10:06 -0700
Message-ID <CsCdna6Vc4C5TSP0nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> (permalink)

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On 03/21/2026 09:41 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 03/21/2026 07:18 AM, john larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 16:42:15 -0700, Ross Finlayson
>> <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/20/2026 03:28 PM, john larkin wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 14:13:46 -0700, Ross Finlayson
>>>> <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 03/20/2026 10:46 AM, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 09:36:21 -0700, Joerg
>>>>>> <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/18/26 4:05 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/18/2026 3:58 PM, Lasse Langwadt wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/18/26 23:09, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> For applications that are NOT "grid connected", what
>>>>>>>>>> (useful things, even if inefficient) can you do with
>>>>>>>>>> "surplus" electricity locally generated?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I.e., once you have "stored" as much as you can in
>>>>>>>>>> electrochemical reactions, then what?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [I'm looking for residential scale uses, not commercial
>>>>>>>>>> or utility]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> hot water?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not a large enough scale -- I'd thought of heating a pool,
>>>>>>>> spa, etc.  Though if neither of those gets *used* while
>>>>>>>> the water is hot, the energy is effectively wasted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Plus you'll probably see a major algae bloom soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pools are mostly expensive nuisances. And baby killers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [I was hoping for uses where "waste" (as in totally discarded)
>>>>>>>> isn't an issue]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A guy in Texas had some sort of rate plan where the electricity
>>>>>>> charge
>>>>>>> on Sunday was zero. He dug a massive hole, lined it, filled it with
>>>>>>> water and froze that water, then used it to cool down his house on
>>>>>>> Monday. There was a bit of waste because the hole wasn't insulated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That sure sounds inefficient.  5% maybe? I wonder if he actually
>>>>>> saved
>>>>>> money doing that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course free things are wasted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Larkin
>>>>>> Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
>>>>>> Lunatic Fringe Electronics
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Flywheel mass-energy storage is usually considered efficient,
>>>>> for immobile installations.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Efficient but impractical.
>>>>
>>>> It is useful for generating short bumps of extreme current, like for
>>>> rail guns or megagauss electromagnets.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John Larkin
>>>> Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
>>>> Lunatic Fringe Electronics
>>>>
>>>
>>> The rather simple principles of operation of flywheel storage
>>> make for that it's plenty practical and even economical,
>>> for usual charging when it's sunny/windy, discharging otherwise.
>>
>> It's obviously not practical for significant energy storage.
>>
>>>
>>> It's being commercialized on a large scale for residential applications.
>>
>> Where?
>>
>>>
>>> Notions like the pulsed-power compulsator have that it's
>>> also suitable for these kinds of things also.
>>>
>>
>> John Larkin
>> Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
>> Lunatic Fringe Electronics
>>
>
> https://www.torus.co/torus-flywheel (example, there are others)
>
> It's probably simplest to implement it with
> commercial-off-the-shelf automotive components,
> the principle of operation is plenty simple with
> a rotating shift and motor and generative with
> a simple sort of clutch, motor runs when there's
> current, generator when there's not, clutch picks
> up the slack.
>
> The "commercialized" accounts are getting all bloated
> with "management software". Simple flywheel storage
> can be quite simple, and needs no "electronics", per se.
>
> China has many installations on their grid.
>
>
>
>

Another usual sort of idea is spring-pulley system,
as like large leaf springs and a 1024:1 pulley block,
made for example of spring and cable steel or carbon
fiber composites, then about the control or clutch
on the pulley spool to take it in when there's excess
electricity and draw it out on demand.


It reminds of a story about the 1940's and '50's,
this fellow sort of made a micro-hydro setup out
on a little ranch somewhere out on a little range.
So, he had lots of excess electricity. He basically
ran wires around his buildings with horseshoes as
heating elements and basically emitted it as heat,
which was useful when it was cold and more or less
ignored when it was less cold.

These days there's a usual account of running
coolers when there's sunlight.



Anyways flywheels or spring-pulley systems have
very well understood mechanical and corresponding
electrical principles.

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Thread

Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-18 15:09 -0700
  Re: Surplus electricity Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> - 2026-03-18 23:58 +0100
    Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-18 16:05 -0700
      Re: Surplus electricity John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 23:18 +0000
        Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-18 17:16 -0700
          Re: Surplus electricity bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-03-19 15:31 +0000
            Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-19 09:54 -0700
              Re: Surplus electricity bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-03-19 18:13 +0000
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-19 13:30 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-03-20 16:29 +0000
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-20 13:43 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-03-20 23:53 +0000
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-20 18:01 -0700
      Re: Surplus electricity Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-20 09:36 -0700
        Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-20 10:46 -0700
          Re: Surplus electricity Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-20 19:14 +0100
          Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 14:13 -0700
            Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-20 15:28 -0700
              Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 16:42 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-21 07:18 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-21 09:41 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-21 10:06 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-21 10:36 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-21 11:12 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-23 23:30 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-23 08:55 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-28 15:59 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-23 08:22 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-21 11:15 -0700
          Re: Surplus electricity Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-24 13:00 -0700
            Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-24 13:42 -0700
              Re: Surplus electricity Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-24 14:01 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-24 15:18 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-24 15:33 -0700
        Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:47 -0700
          Re: Surplus electricity Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-24 13:32 -0700
            Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-24 13:53 -0700
              Re: Surplus electricity Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-24 14:17 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-24 15:26 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-24 16:51 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-24 17:53 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 20:54 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-24 21:21 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 00:14 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-25 02:25 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 07:05 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-25 12:30 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 13:29 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-25 14:47 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 15:00 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 15:20 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 15:33 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-25 15:54 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:20 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-25 22:21 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 07:10 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-26 01:28 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 07:45 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-26 16:31 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-25 09:17 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-25 15:38 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-25 14:32 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 14:52 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-25 22:03 +0000
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 15:11 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-26 21:17 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-25 22:14 +0000
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-25 22:01 +0000
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-25 15:52 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-26 20:58 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-26 16:51 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-26 02:48 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-27 01:25 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-26 07:48 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-27 15:19 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-27 04:24 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-28 01:55 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-27 11:43 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-28 15:37 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-29 12:10 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-30 14:47 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-30 08:09 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-31 16:13 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-31 10:59 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-26 18:30 +0000
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-28 02:15 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-26 16:19 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-27 10:10 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-27 15:22 -0700
            Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 13:54 -0700
  Re: Surplus electricity piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-18 23:25 +0000
    Re: Surplus electricity bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-03-18 23:15 -0400
  Re: Surplus electricity Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2026-03-19 12:36 +0000
    Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-19 06:36 -0700
  Re:Surplus electricity Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> - 2026-03-19 10:42 -0400
  Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-19 08:13 -0700
  Re: Surplus electricity DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> - 2026-03-19 13:05 -0400
    Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-19 13:51 -0700
  Re: Surplus electricity Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> - 2026-03-20 08:04 +0000
  Re: Surplus electricity Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-20 09:32 -0700
    Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 10:36 -0700
      Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-20 13:47 -0700
        Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-20 15:38 -0700
  Re: Surplus electricity Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> - 2026-03-20 22:32 +0000
    Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 16:39 -0700
    Re: Surplus electricity liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-03-21 12:53 +0000
      Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-21 07:19 -0700

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