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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #160769
| From | Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.folklore.computers |
| Subject | Re: Computers anyone? |
| Date | 2016-03-09 21:35 -0600 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <nbqpt8$cck$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | <dka4p9Fhde9U1@mid.individual.net> <874mcfu0w7.fsf@garlic.com> <4qidnScPE9p74X3LnZ2dnUU7-eOdnZ2d@giganews.com> <MPG.314a6ff2b42ffe7e989fcf@news.eternal-september.org> |
On 09-Mar-16 16:38, J. Clarke wrote: > In article <4qidnScPE9p74X3LnZ2dnUU7-eOdnZ2d@giganews.com>, > jmelson@wustl.edu says... >> Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: >>> [John Boyd] used it to re-design the F-15, changing it from an >>> 80,000-pound, swing-wing, sluggish behemoth, to a 40,000-pound >>> fixed-wing, high-performance, maneuvering fighter. >> >> Uhh, the Navy's F-14 was swing wing, the F-15 is fixed. > > Note that that particular "sluggish behemoth" ... I think you both misread the above; what I see is that _before_ Boyd got involved, the F-15's design was bad, but he used "it" (whatever that meant in context) to make the design much better. > ... is so fearsome that one lighting off its radar will ground whole > third-world air forces and when it was removed from service every > single aircraft in the inventory was destroyed lest the one third- > world air force that had a few of them get spare parts and thus do > untold damage to the supposedly vastly superior lightweight fighters > that can't force it to engage, can't run away from it, and can't > shoot at it until long after it has killed them. The F-15 was indeed a fearsome fighter; the F-22 is better, and a few later MiGs could match it, but nothing else can even touch it, and yes, we don't want anyone else to have them--not even our allies. OTOH, the F-16 was a ground attack plane, not a fighter; ditto for the F-117. However, due to Congress's stupidity, the USAF had to designate them both "fighter" planes to get them funded. And we have no problem selling thousands of them to other countries. The idea is that a few (very expensive) F-15s would clear the air over the target so that a bunch of (very cheap) F-16s could come in and bomb said target. That is _exactly_ what the USAF did in Iraq I, with the addition of F-117s taking out SAM/AAA sites before the F-15s. Those cool videos of laser- and GPS-guided bombs taking out tanks or flying in windows were courtesy of F-16s. The F-35 was supposed to replace the F-16 and F-18, but the F-22 was too expensive, so Congress killed it and demanded the F-35 design be changed to do both roles--and as a result, costs have spiraled out of control to an even greater degree than the F-22's did. The reality is that you can buy at least a dozen F-16s for the price of one F-35, and probably two or three by the time it's in production--and an F-35 can't even beat _one_ F-16 in combat, much less a dozen of them at once. Even an F-15 or F-22 would struggle at that, but only because it'd run out of missiles before it ran out of targets to kill. S -- Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
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Computers anyone? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-03-09 08:22 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 19:25 +1100
Re: Computers anyone? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-09 13:41 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-09 06:48 -0700
Re: Computers anyone? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-03-09 14:00 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 04:46 +1100
Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 04:40 +1100
Re: Computers anyone? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-09 13:50 -0600
Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 17:32 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-10 13:24 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 08:56 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-10 07:29 -0700
Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 20:19 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-11 13:08 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-12 04:02 +1100
Re: Computers anyone? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-12 13:34 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-13 04:35 +1100
Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-12 15:54 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? pechter@chuckie.(none) (William Pechter) - 2016-03-12 20:51 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-13 07:44 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:00 -0400
Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:07 -0400
Re: Computers anyone? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-03-12 15:10 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-12 18:03 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-12 18:34 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-13 15:28 +1100
Re: Computers anyone? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-09 14:08 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-09 14:41 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-09 07:27 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-03-09 13:44 -0600
Re: Computers anyone? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-09 20:15 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 17:38 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-09 17:14 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-09 17:35 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 21:31 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-09 20:25 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-10 01:55 -0700
Re: Computers anyone? mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-10 11:47 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 08:54 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2016-03-30 12:47 -0400
Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 04:01 +1100
Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-10 09:04 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 04:28 +1100
Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-10 13:44 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-10 19:28 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 06:16 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-11 10:37 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-12 12:37 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-17 09:25 -0700
Re: Computers anyone? Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-09 21:35 -0600
Re: Computers anyone? mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-10 11:52 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 08:55 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-10 13:53 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-03-10 14:21 -0600
Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-10 13:17 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 20:29 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 20:17 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-09 16:42 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 20:19 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2016-03-09 12:13 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 04:58 +1100
Re: Computers anyone? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2016-03-10 06:37 -0500
Re: Computers anyone? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-03-09 13:39 -0600
Re: Computers anyone? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-10 01:55 -0700
Re: Computers anyone? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-10 09:43 -0600
Re: Computers anyone? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-03-10 14:06 -0600
Re: Computers anyone? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-11 13:08 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-11 14:10 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-11 16:21 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-11 17:04 -0700
Re: Computers anyone? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-03-12 18:04 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-12 19:32 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-03-21 20:17 -0400
Re: Computers anyone? mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-12 19:30 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-09 12:14 -0800
Re: Computers anyone? hankvc@blackhole.lostwells.org (Hank) - 2016-03-12 07:34 +0000
Re: Computers anyone? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-12 07:30 -0700
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