Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #160821

Re: Computers anyone?

Show all headers | View raw

Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> writes:
> DoD put out a request for the "F-X" and may have suggested it needed swing 
> wings, but McD proved that they were not actually NEEDED to fill all the 
> requirements, at least after several rounds of requests and proposals.
>
> McDonnell-Douglas proposed a non-swing wing aircraft, and went on to build a 
> prototype.  I saw it fly in 1973 at Wallops Station, a guy flew over from 
> Pax River with it.  VERRRRY impressive handling and climb rate.
>
> As far as I know, this became the F-15 with no large changes.  They
> did make some modest changes to the control surface areas.

dates off by nearly a decade.

FX early to mid-60s, all designs swing-wing and 60,000lbs or more , Boyd
design early 1967, MD included in 1967 2nd phase selection using Boyd
design/spec, MD final selection dec1969, 1st flt july 1972, full-rate
production six months later

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle

An official requirements document was finalized in October, and sent out
as a request for proposals (RFP) to 13 companies on 8 December
1965. Eight companies responded with proposals. Following a downselect,
four companies were asked to provide further developments. In total,
they developed some 500 design concepts. Typical designs featured
variable-sweep wings, weighed over 60,000 pounds (27,000 kg), included a
top speed of Mach 2.7 and a thrust-to-weight ratio of 0.75.[12] When the
proposals were studied in July 1966, the aircraft were roughly the size
and weight of the TFX, and like that aircraft, a design that could not
be considered an air superiority fighter.[13]

...

This led to John Boyd's Energy-Maneuverability (E-M) theory, which
stressed that extra power and maneuverability were key aspects of a
successful fighter design, and these were more important than outright
speed. Through tireless championing of the concepts, and good timing
with the "failure" of the initial F-X project, the "fighter mafia"
pressed for a lightweight day fighter that could be built and operated
in large numbers in order to ensure air superiority.[16] In early 1967,
they proposed that the ideal design had a thrust-to-weight ratio of near
1:1, a maximum speed further reduced to Mach 2.3, a weight of 40,000
pounds (18,000 kg) and a wing loading of 80 lb/ft².[17]

http://www.boeing.com/history/products/f-15-eagle.page

McDonnell Aircraft formalized the concept for the F-15 in 1967 when the
company was selected to enter the second phase of the U.S Air Force's FX
competition. Competing against Fairchild Hiller and North American
Rockwell, McDonnell used lessons learned during the Vietnam War on the
changing nature of jet age air-to-air combat, given that the F-4 Phantom
II was earning its reputation as a formidable fighter. On Dec. 23, 1969,
after more than two years of intensive testing and evaluation, the Air
Force awarded McDonnell Douglas the F-15 Advanced Tactical Fighter
contract. The McDonnell Douglas team had placed first among the three
competitors in all phases of the competition and had the lowest contract
price.

On June 26, 1972, James S. McDonnell, founder of McDonnell Aircraft,
christened the F-15 "Eagle." Test pilot Irv Burrows took the first F-15
Eagle to the air on July 27, 1972, at Edwards Air Force Base in
California. Six months later, the Air Force approved the Eagle for
full-rate production.

...snip ...

for a whole lot more, declassified F15 origins and development 1964-1972
http://www.afhso.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-120516-036.pdf

Boyd E/M discussion pgs.18-21 ... "By the spring of 1967, through the
efforts of Boyd and others, a 40,000-point F-X aircraft was "popped
out".

pg28, Point Design Studies, Meanwhile, the Air Force on 11 August 1967
had solicited bids from severn aerospace companies for second round of
studies.

pg37, F-15 Demonstration Milestones ... starting Dec1969

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Back to alt.folklore.computers | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Computers anyone? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-03-09 08:22 +0000
  Re: Computers anyone? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 19:25 +1100
  Re: Computers anyone? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-09 13:41 +0000
    Re: Computers anyone? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-09 06:48 -0700
    Re: Computers anyone? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-03-09 14:00 +0000
      Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 04:46 +1100
    Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 04:40 +1100
    Re: Computers anyone? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-09 13:50 -0600
    Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 17:32 -0500
      Re: Computers anyone? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-10 13:24 +0000
        Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 08:56 -0500
        Re: Computers anyone? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-10 07:29 -0700
          Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 20:19 -0500
          Re: Computers anyone? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-11 13:08 +0000
            Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-12 04:02 +1100
              Re: Computers anyone? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-12 13:34 +0000
                Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-13 04:35 +1100
                Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-12 15:54 -0500
                Re: Computers anyone? pechter@chuckie.(none) (William Pechter) - 2016-03-12 20:51 +0000
                Re: Computers anyone? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-13 07:44 +0000
                Re: Computers anyone? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:00 -0400
                Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:07 -0400
          Re: Computers anyone? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-03-12 15:10 -0800
          Re: Computers anyone? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-12 18:03 -0800
            Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-12 18:34 -0800
            Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-13 15:28 +1100
  Re: Computers anyone? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-09 14:08 +0000
  Re: Computers anyone? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-09 14:41 +0000
  Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-09 07:27 -0800
    Re: Computers anyone? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-03-09 13:44 -0600
      Re: Computers anyone? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-09 20:15 +0000
      Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 17:38 -0500
        Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-09 17:14 -0800
          Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-09 17:35 -0800
            Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 21:31 -0500
              Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-09 20:25 -0800
                Re: Computers anyone? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-10 01:55 -0700
                Re: Computers anyone? mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-10 11:47 +0000
                Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 08:54 -0500
                Re: Computers anyone? Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2016-03-30 12:47 -0400
                Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 04:01 +1100
                Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-10 09:04 -0800
                Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 04:28 +1100
                Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-10 13:44 -0800
                Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-10 19:28 -0800
                Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 06:16 -0500
                Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-11 10:37 -0800
                Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-12 12:37 -0800
                Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-17 09:25 -0700
        Re: Computers anyone? Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-03-09 21:35 -0600
          Re: Computers anyone? mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-10 11:52 +0000
            Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 08:55 -0500
        Re: Computers anyone? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-10 13:53 +0000
          Re: Computers anyone? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-03-10 14:21 -0600
            Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-10 13:17 -0800
            Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 20:29 -0500
          Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 20:17 -0500
      Re: Computers anyone? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-03-09 16:42 -0800
        Re: Computers anyone? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 20:19 -0500
  Re: Computers anyone? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2016-03-09 12:13 -0500
    Re: Computers anyone? "Sam Crean" <sg55443@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 04:58 +1100
      Re: Computers anyone? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2016-03-10 06:37 -0500
  Re: Computers anyone? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-03-09 13:39 -0600
    Re: Computers anyone? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-10 01:55 -0700
      Re: Computers anyone? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-03-10 09:43 -0600
      Re: Computers anyone? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-03-10 14:06 -0600
        Re: Computers anyone? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-11 13:08 +0000
        Re: Computers anyone? mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-11 14:10 +0000
          Re: Computers anyone? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-11 16:21 +0000
          Re: Computers anyone? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-11 17:04 -0700
            Re: Computers anyone? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-03-12 18:04 +0000
              Re: Computers anyone? mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-12 19:32 +0000
                Re: Computers anyone? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-03-21 20:17 -0400
            Re: Computers anyone? mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-12 19:30 +0000
  Re: Computers anyone? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-03-09 12:14 -0800
  Re: Computers anyone? hankvc@blackhole.lostwells.org (Hank) - 2016-03-12 07:34 +0000
    Re: Computers anyone? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-12 07:30 -0700

csiph-web