Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #480145

Re: the famous formula

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: the famous formula
Date	2018-12-18 18:42 +0100
Message-ID	<g7sprhFr9leU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(20 earlier) <c1381a68-616c-fddc-ae08-64201ffbb300@PointedEars.de> <g7l0muF5qk3U1@mid.individual.net> <5c5d8839-03ab-b864-eb0e-8fef20e111f9@PointedEars.de> <g7pag2F3ro1U1@mid.individual.net> <pv8fas$1qii$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Am 17.12.2018 um 16:28 schrieb Odd Bodkin:
> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
>> Am 15.12.2018 um 22:02 schrieb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
>>> Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>> Am 15.12.2018 um 13:52 schrieb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
>>>>>>> It isn’t really up to debate. The term “work” is defined clearly, has been
>>>>>>> defined clearly for a couple of centuries, and that definition contrasts
>>>>>>> with a meaning that you are saying makes sense to you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The concept of vectors is much younger than the concept of the quantity
>>>>>> 'work'.
>>>>> The *term* is younger, but that does not mean anything.
>>>>
>>>> Newton wrote in the 17th century
>>>
>>> He was prolific in the 17th *and* 18th century.
>>>
>>>> and vectors came into fashion in the 19th century.
>>>
>>> Which, AISB, *was* about 200 years ago (it is the 21st century now),
>>
>>
>> The was a controversy between Hamilton and Heavyside about the use of
>> quaternions (which Hamilton had invented).
>>
>> Vectors have won.
>>
>> The event was in the late 19th century, but actually I don't know
>> exactly when.
>>
>>
>> Also 170 is a little less than two centuries - but that is not really
>> important..
>>
>>> But once again, when the *term* was first used is completely irrelevant.
>>> The *concept* was known before.
>>>
>>> In particular, as the referenced source says, Newton *used* the concept in
>>> the «Principia», where he proved geometrically that Kepler’s Second Law of
>>> Planetary Motion (put simply, “a planet moves in such a way that a line in
>>> the *direction* *from* the Sun *to* the planet covers equal areas in equal
>>> times”) holds if one assumes that there is a force *directed* *towards* the Sun.
>>
>> This absolutely nothing to do with the question, whether the quantity
>> 'work' is a vector quantity or a scalar.
>>
>> The idea of work as a scalar is based on the idea of distance is a vector.
> 
> No, that’s irrelevant because work involves displacement not distance.
> Distance only suffices in the simplest of circumstances.

Sure, work is directed and displacement is involved.

But: once  is enough (one directed quantity)!

The quantity force is actually a vector (- quantity) and a certain force 
vector would include enough information about direction of work.

We had to use the component of the force in the direction of the 
movement. But this would be sufficient.

What we do NOT want in the equation is the actually position.

IOW: we could lift a stone here or anywhere else (on Earth) and the 
force-vector would provide enough information (besides hight).

What we do not need is the actual location.

We could lift a stone of say 10 kg in Paris or New York for one meter 
and we want similar work (besides different directions).

The location (city Paris/New York) is not necessary and we do not want 
that in the term 'work'.

But a path is a set of locations, that are reached by a certain object 
as a function of time.

TH
>

Thread

the famous formula RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-06 10:49 -0800
  Re: the famous formula pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-12-06 11:30 -0800
  Re: the famous formula dlzc <dlzc1@cox.net> - 2018-12-06 11:43 -0800
    Re: the famous formula RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-07 10:15 -0800
      Re: the famous formula dlzc <dlzc1@cox.net> - 2018-12-07 11:13 -0800
        Re: the famous formula RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-09 00:02 -0800
          Re: the famous formula dlzc <dlzc1@cox.net> - 2018-12-09 15:23 -0800
            Re: the famous formula Libor Striz <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2018-12-10 09:54 +0100
              Re: the famous formula dlzc <dlzc1@cox.net> - 2018-12-10 05:43 -0800
                Re: the famous formula Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-12 11:08 -0600
                Re: the famous formula dlzc <dlzc1@cox.net> - 2018-12-12 09:35 -0800
                Re: the famous formula Rich Carpenter <lcug@kigcohc.pa> - 2018-12-12 19:20 +0000
                Re: the famous formula Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-12 19:28 -0600
                Re: the famous formula Scott Richman <sunn@idhnonow.iv> - 2018-12-13 16:13 +0000
                Re: the famous formula "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-12-14 04:56 -0800
                Re: the famous formula "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-12-14 05:23 -0800
                Re: the famous formula RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-19 13:06 -0800
                Re: the famous formula Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-19 20:32 -0600
                Re: the famous formula RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-27 13:40 -0800
        Re: the famous formula Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-12 10:28 -0600
          Re: the famous formula dlzc <dlzc1@cox.net> - 2018-12-12 09:12 -0800
            Re: the famous formula Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-14 12:21 -0600
    Re: the famous formula "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-06 09:20 -0800
      Re: the famous formula "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-06 09:37 -0800
  Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-06 20:50 +0100
    Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-06 22:47 +0100
      Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-07 12:06 +0100
        Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-07 16:15 +0100
          Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-08 14:18 +0100
            Re: the famous formula Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-08 13:43 +0000
              Re: the famous formula "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-12-08 06:01 -0800
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-08 18:18 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com.INVALID> - 2018-12-08 19:26 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-09 19:35 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com.INVALID> - 2018-12-09 20:24 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-10 18:48 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Rich Carpenter <lcug@kigcohc.pa> - 2018-12-10 19:37 +0000
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-10 22:27 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-10 22:35 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-12 16:45 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-13 17:21 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-09 19:03 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com.INVALID> - 2018-12-09 20:37 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-09 22:20 +0000
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-10 18:40 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-10 21:59 +0100
                Re: the famous formula "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2018-12-18 05:33 -0800
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-22 14:51 +0100
                Re: the famous formula "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2018-12-22 15:30 -0800
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-23 01:34 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-10 21:41 +0000
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-11 16:31 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 18:24 +0000
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-12 16:32 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 16:27 +0000
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-14 15:13 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 14:28 +0000
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-15 13:35 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-15 13:52 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-15 19:50 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 20:33 +0000
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-17 11:13 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-18 04:45 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-18 18:50 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-21 22:48 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-15 22:02 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-17 11:01 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-17 15:28 +0000
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-18 18:42 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-06 18:45 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2019-01-01 16:54 -0800
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2019-01-06 17:17 +0100
                Re: the famous formula "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-06 08:35 -0800
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2019-01-07 14:56 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-06 18:47 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 12:55 +0000
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-13 23:14 +0100
                [OT] Work (was: the famous formula) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-11 21:56 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-08 20:14 +0100
            Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-09 19:22 +0100
        Re: the famous formula Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com.INVALID> - 2018-12-07 17:57 +0100
          Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-08 14:03 +0100
            Re: the famous formula Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-08 05:29 -0800
              Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-08 18:43 +0100
                [OT] Work (was: the famous formula) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-08 21:53 +0100
                Re: [OT] Work Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-09 19:08 +0100
                Re: [OT] Work Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com.INVALID> - 2018-12-09 19:31 +0100
                Re: [OT] Work Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-09 18:58 +0100
                Re: [OT] Work Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-10 18:52 +0100
                Re: [OT] Work Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-10 22:28 +0100
                Re: [OT] Work Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-11 16:36 +0100
                Re: [OT] Work Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-11 20:24 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-08 14:02 -0800
            Re: the famous formula Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com.INVALID> - 2018-12-08 16:56 +0100
              Re: the famous formula Ejí Utorka <edew@aewedoc.cl> - 2018-12-08 16:05 +0000
                Re: the famous formula Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-08 18:35 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Ejí Utorka <edew@aewedoc.cl> - 2018-12-08 17:58 +0000
                Re: the famous formula Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com.INVALID> - 2018-12-08 19:34 +0100
                Re: the famous formula Ejí Utorka <edew@aewedoc.cl> - 2018-12-08 18:54 +0000
          Re: the famous formula Ejí Utorka <edew@aewedoc.cl> - 2018-12-08 16:09 +0000
  Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-06 22:16 +0100
    Re: the famous formula Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2019-01-01 18:15 -0800
      Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-01-02 22:10 +0100
  Re: the famous formula Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-07 16:07 +0000
    Re: the famous formula Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2019-01-01 17:22 -0800
  Re: the famous formula Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-07 22:47 +0100
  Re: the famous formula "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2018-12-09 15:06 -0800
    Re: the famous formula benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 13:44 -0500

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