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Re: H-1B Reform

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On 2017-02-08 09:28, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Feb 2017 08:08:51 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-02-07 17:21, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 07 Feb 2017 10:02:30 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-02-07 09:18, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 07 Feb 2017 07:49:06 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2017-02-06 17:26, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 07:27:48 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2017-02-05 15:02, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                      ...  It really is impossible to find hundreds of
>>>>>>>>> contractors, quickly, in the US.  H1B contractors fill the crests in
>>>>>>>>> workload so the employee base is more stable (we have a number of
>>>>>>>>> contract EEs, too, but they're not H1Bs).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's perfectly ok to use H1B contractors. However, they need to be paid
>>>>>>>> prevailing wage or higher and that must be _verified_ which is super
>>>>>>>> easy to do. I have suggested that all the time but it wasn't done. Now
>>>>>>>> it will be because the new administration seems to understand some stuff
>>>>>>>> that previous ones didn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The H1Bs at my CPoE aren't paid the same as employees, sure, but they
>>>>>>> don't have the same responsibilities, either.  They're basically code
>>>>>>> jockeys.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once they have to start paying them $130k/year each they will probably
>>>>>> find Americans for that job, and fast. There are plenty of un- or
>>>>>> under-employed coders around.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, they'd just move *all* jobs overseas.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sure, that can happen. Then we need to find out why we cannot perform
>>>> these design tasks here and do something about it.
>>>
>>> We can (do), if the government would let it alone.  My job has been
>>> "off-shored" from somewhere else.  Do you want to stop that, too?
>>
>>
>> Of course not. Moving design tasks to where the talent is has always
>> been a smart idea. Same if you can obtain sufficiently good results at a
>> lower cost. In a world economy every region has to compete against
>> another. Competiton is a good thing. What each region should, therefore,
>> do is level the playing field.
>
> OK, so you want to leave the *foreign* US jobs here but don't want to
> import *any* foreign workers to fill short-term positions, even if
> they're paid similarly to (unavailable) locals, for the same skills.


Huh? Where did I ever say that?


> You want to export *all* of those salaries.  You want your cake and
> eat it too.  Got it.
>
>>> Getting rid of H1Bs is a good way to do it.
>>>
>>
>> They would still use your design team if they can't get the results locally.
>
> They were doing it at home but it makes sense to do it closer to the
> customer.  If the job is made more difficult to do here, it won't be.
> That's the bottom line (for all business decisions).
>

Sure. That should always be made possible. It's got nothing to do with 
H1B, that is simply having a foreign design center.


>>>>>> H1B was meant to obtain special talent that could not be found in the US
>>>>>> or where we simply don't have enough engineers, not for hiring scores of
>>>>>> cheap programmers. Now it will (hopefully) revert to that original intent.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Special" has lots of meanings.  The restriction is that the job is
>>>>> unfillable with resident labor.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why are they unfillable?
>>>
>>> Because not enough people want a three or six month programming job
>>> with no chance of direct hire.
>>
>>
>> I have met lots of people who do. Also, that still beats being unable to
>> make a good living or being stuck in some cheap apartment.
>
> But they *will* be stuck in a cheap apartment.  That's the nature of
> short-term contract work.  BTDT.
>

It is not. I do this for a living. So why am I not stuck in a cheap 
apartment?


>> For me, having shorter term stints (until a project is complete) is fun.
>> It provides a smorgasbord of tasks for me which are all different. Just
>> as I want it. There are not many hardware engineers who feel that way
>> but many programmers do.
>
> They simply don't want to move for short-term work.  You don't have to
> because they come to you.  Different kettle.


It can be the same for programmers. They just have to become good enough 
so people either come to them or are willing to do it remotely. We live 
in a high-cost country and the only way to keep a decent job, temporary 
or not, is by becoming good enough at what one is doing.

Example: The programmer for one of the projects I am involved in lives 
and works in his own home about 7000 miles from here. It works. Another 
works from his home about 3-4 miles from here and has mostly West Coast 
clients. Whenever we have to work together I usually go there by 
mountain bike. Even if we could get a certain task done remotely I 
sometimes rode (and did not bill my client for that travel time) because 
it's fun and healthy.

>>>>
>>>> For certain high-skill or niche jobs it is certainly true. WRT
>>>> programmers what I hear is more like the first part of this article,
>>>> they are heaving trouble finding enough gigs or employment:
>>>
>>> But they don't want to move for short term employment, either.
>>
>> There are more people than you think who abhor office politics and
>> prefer freelancing just because of that.
>
> It's *NOT* freelancing.  It's contract work.  You're still working for
> an employer.  Two, in fact.
>

If people feel like not marketing their skills themselves then they have 
to live with the middleman company. I never did and never will.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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H-1B Reform bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-01-31 08:16 -0800
  Re: H-1B Reform George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-01-31 09:15 -0800
  Re: H-1B Reform Martin Riddle <martin_rid@verizon.net> - 2017-01-31 20:11 -0500
    Re: H-1B Reform Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-01-31 22:49 -0500
    Re: H-1B Reform dakupoto@gmail.com - 2017-02-04 22:52 -0800
      Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-05 07:23 -0800
        Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-05 18:02 -0500
          Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:27 -0800
            Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-06 20:26 -0500
              Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 07:49 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 12:18 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 10:02 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 20:21 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:08 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 12:28 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 10:05 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:13 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:16 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:13 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:19 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-08 13:42 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:06 -0800
        Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 03:18 -0500
          Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:17 -0800
          Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:51 -0800
            Re: H-1B Reform makolber@yahoo.com - 2017-02-06 10:08 -0800
              Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:11 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 12:53 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:22 -0800
              Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:36 +0000
              Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-08 17:20 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:14 -0500
            Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 19:36 -0500
              Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 08:02 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-07 17:01 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 20:33 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:18 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:02 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 14:36 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 21:12 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:42 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-09 11:02 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 10:36 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 14:34 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:27 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 15:33 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:40 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 17:58 -0800
        Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 17:10 +0000
          Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 09:24 -0800
            Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 18:05 +0000
              Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:18 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:41 +0000
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:31 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 22:05 +0000
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 14:56 -0800
      Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 10:32 -0500
        Re: H-1B Reform Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-02-05 19:15 +0100
          Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 23:06 -0500
            Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:24 -0800

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