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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #446879
| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.electronics.design |
| Subject | Re: H-1B Reform |
| Date | 2017-02-08 17:02 -0500 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <o7g4f1$ssf$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (5 earlier) <efrkagFcri7U1@mid.individual.net> <o7b4nb$tle$1@dont-email.me> <efu9c5Fter0U1@mid.individual.net> <o7dsdu$q8j$1@dont-email.me> <eg0ulaFfhucU1@mid.individual.net> |
On 2/8/2017 11:18 AM, Joerg wrote: > On 2017-02-07 17:33, rickman wrote: >> On 2/7/2017 11:02 AM, Joerg wrote: >>> On 2017-02-06 16:36, rickman wrote: >>>> On 2/6/2017 10:51 AM, Joerg wrote: >>>>> On 2017-02-06 00:18, rickman wrote: >>>>>> On 2/5/2017 10:23 AM, Joerg wrote: >>>>>>> On 2017-02-04 22:52, dakupoto@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 8:12:03 PM UTC-5, Martin Riddle >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:16:27 -0800 (PST), >>>>>>>>> bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is going to fly like a lead balloon: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/zg8k64f >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So instead of displacing 1 american worker, they'll displace 2? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Huh? How can a single engineer do the work of two on a consistent >>>>>>> basis? >>>>>>> The day has only 24h. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is very well said. And now more and more >>>>>>>> US high tech companies will try to outsource >>>>>>>> as many of their jobs as possible to off-shore >>>>>>>> sites. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> They'll do that anyhow and that's got nothing to do with H1B. >>>>>>> Running a >>>>>>> software outfit overseas is cheaper than paying for travel and >>>>>>> housing >>>>>>> of someone temporarily moved over here. The pay will also be much >>>>>>> lower >>>>>>> because the cost of daily life is much lower in many countries >>>>>>> overseas. >>>>>>> Also, there can't be import tariffs on it because their work results >>>>>>> will flow across the borders on "singing wires". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Raising and most of all enforcing the required wage is the perfect >>>>>>> way >>>>>>> to fix H1B and I've always said that. Finally we have an >>>>>>> administration >>>>>>> that understand it. H1B is meant to haul in talent where we truly >>>>>>> can't >>>>>>> find an engineer for, not to obtain work results cheaper. The >>>>>>> companies >>>>>>> I worked for used H1B for exactly that intended purpose and they >>>>>>> paid >>>>>>> beaucoup bucks for those folks in salary. >>>>>> >>>>>> The required wage for H-1B workers has always been the prevailing >>>>>> wage. >>>>>> But I seem to recall that most of the jobs being filled by this >>>>>> workers >>>>>> have not been higher paying engineering jobs. Still, enforcement has >>>>>> been the hard and ineffective part. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Correct, because the bureaucrats who could have monitored this with >>>>> ease >>>>> were asleep at the wheel. That is now likely going to change and it >>>>> should. >>>> >>>> Yes, the cause of every problem is somnambulist civil servants. Mostly >>>> likely the cause is lack of sufficient resources allocated by Congress. >>>> Trump and Congress can pass any law they want, but if they don't >>>> pony up >>>> the money to pay for enforcement.... >>>> >>> >>> A computer can monitor this. One method: Each H1B visa holder must agree >>> that their tax return info _and_ monthly bank account balances are >>> automatically sent over to the DOL. There, the computer crunches the >>> numbers. Only when the computer goes BEEEEP does anyone look into the >>> numbers and sends out an auditor. These people can be paid from a pot >>> filled by the penalties that abusing companies are slapped with. No need >>> to allocate anything. Simple. >> >> Can we hire H-1B visa holders to program the computers? >> > > Sure you can. But starting this year you have to pay big bucks for that. > As it should be with H1B. > > >> >>>>> We need H1B and the law is already quite good as it is, always has >>>>> been. >>>>> The problem is a de-facto non-enforcement of the rules in this law. I >>>>> have personally met people who were let go and then replaced by an H1B >>>>> worker. This is wrong. So we need to get back to applying H1B the >>>>> way it >>>>> was always intended, obtaining talent which we truly cannot find in >>>>> America or simply do not have enough of. >>>> >>>> My cousin was one of those people. He literally trained his >>>> replacement. But he wouldn't report them. In the end after six months >>>> or so they hired him back... then laid him off again later on. >>>> Then he >>>> came back as a contractor getting paid much more. You have to work the >>>> system to your benefit. >>>> >>> >>> He was lucky. Others weren't so lucky. Anyhow, with the new rules that >>> will hopefully end soon. >> >> I don't recall the details, but when I dug into the H-1B thing the vast >> majority of visa holders worked for huge temp companies essentially and >> they were not doing high level engineering work. It was more like IT or >> similar level work. Ask a company to pay them $130k a year will simply >> kill the entire H-1B program. >> > > It will not. H1B allows us to hire that specialist from overseas > elsewhere that brings fresh ideas into a project. It allows us to hire > the brightest minds to keep America at the top of high-tech. That is > what H1B was designed for. Except that is not what it is being used for. The proposed changes will eliminate abuse, but it does nothing to *encourage* proper use. >> I believe you are addressing a problem that isn't really very big. >> > > It is big to all those people like your cousin because it messes with > their making a living. My cousin was very happy. > H1B is a wonderful program and abolishing it like some short-sighted > pundits are advocating would be flat wrong. It needs to simply be > brought back to its original intent. All the protection measures are > already in the law, always have been. We as a country simply need to > adhere to them and that unfortunately means enforcement of rules. It is still bringing in workers where there is no shortage. >>>>>> I know when I have worked in companies producing products for a >>>>>> competitive marketplace, there was *lots* of interaction between all >>>>>> the >>>>>> departments involved. It would have been very hard to produce a >>>>>> product >>>>>> other than what was intended by the marketing group. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marketing-driven businesses can be a problem though. I have seen some. >>>>> Mostly because marketing folks often think too short term and most of >>>>> all in a reaction-mode. "Oh, we just saw the competition has an XYZ >>>>> wombombulator function so we absolutely need that by this coming trade >>>>> show". I am quite glad to not be exposed to this all that much >>>>> anymore. >>>>> My current clients operate in true visionary mode. >>>> >>>> "Marketing driven" is a term that means just what you want it to >>>> mean. A >>>> company needs marketing and if the engineering department fails to >>>> negotiate the requirements and/or fails to meet those requirements, >>>> then >>>> where are they? Customers will buy what they want and if you don't >>>> give >>>> it to them, you won't be designing anything in the future. >>>> >>> >>> What I meant by that is what I saw a lot over my career: Sales and >>> marketing folks are very much in an "instant gratification" mode, they >>> do not think very long term. Engineers usually do. What this resulted in >>> is that good engineering ideas withered because marketing demanded that >>> 100% of the available manpower was spent on existing product design >>> improvements. I know quite well how marketing folks think because I >>> married my very first contact with a marketing department :-) >> >> I don't know what companies you have worked for, but "gratification" >> comes from management. They make the rules and if they reward marketing >> for doing lousy work, that's not marketing's fault. We *all* respond to >> the stimulus and rewards we receive. Engineering as well. >> > > Marketing is usually under the VP or Sales. Sales is traditionally > driven by commissions. Hence ... No, marketing is *not* "under" sales in any company I've worked for. Regardless, ultimate control over commissions and everything else in a company is by management. They can create good, or create bad. Obviously not every company has the issues you mention, so there must be ways to solve the problem. -- Rick C
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H-1B Reform bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-01-31 08:16 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-01-31 09:15 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Martin Riddle <martin_rid@verizon.net> - 2017-01-31 20:11 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-01-31 22:49 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform dakupoto@gmail.com - 2017-02-04 22:52 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-05 07:23 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-05 18:02 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:27 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-06 20:26 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 07:49 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 12:18 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 10:02 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 20:21 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:08 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 12:28 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 10:05 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:13 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:16 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:13 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:19 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-08 13:42 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:06 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 03:18 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:17 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:51 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform makolber@yahoo.com - 2017-02-06 10:08 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:11 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 12:53 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:22 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:36 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-08 17:20 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:14 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 19:36 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 08:02 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-07 17:01 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 20:33 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:18 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:02 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 14:36 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 21:12 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:42 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-09 11:02 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 10:36 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 14:34 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:27 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 15:33 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:40 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 17:58 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 17:10 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 09:24 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 18:05 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:18 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:41 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:31 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 22:05 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 14:56 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 10:32 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-02-05 19:15 +0100
Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 23:06 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:24 -0800
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