Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #364025

Re: SR is just another name for LET

Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Date	2015-09-13 16:34 -0700
References	(8 earlier) <mt20mp$22j$1@speranza.aioe.org> <AtadnTGg9OqKWmnInZ2dnUU7_8ydnZ2d@giganews.com> <ec6fac43-18d5-4893-9901-482da061887c@googlegroups.com> <04CdnXp5ocwkGWjInZ2dnUU7_82dnZ2d@giganews.com> <c199b776-6d9c-4ce7-9ad6-641cf2b57bdb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID	<2927e66c-eae6-4fe9-8edc-bc658cd97fb8@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: SR is just another name for LET
From	kenseto <setoken@att.net>

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On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 12:12:50 PM UTC-4, kenseto wrote:
> On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 10:14:20 AM UTC-4, tjrob137 wrote:
> > On 9/13/15 9/13/15   8:00 AM, kenseto wrote:
> > > On Saturday, September 12, 2015 at 8:45:12 PM UTC-4, tjrob137 wrote:
> > >> On 9/12/15 9/12/15   3:07 PM, Frances Espinosa wrote:
> > >>> At least the time dilation is pretty much physical as it can be.
> > >> This depends on what you mean by "physical". Certainly it has physical
> > >> consequences, such as the fact that pion beams about a kilometer long
> > >> exist.
> > >
> > > Physical means: A moving clock accumulate clock second at a slower rate than
> > > the stationary clock.
> > 
> > Then in that sense of the word, "time dilation" in SR is not "physical", because 
> > clocks ALWAYS accumulate at their usual rate, regardless of their motion or 
> > location (that's what we mean by "clock").
> 
> " clock always accu,ulate at their ususl rate" has no meaning unless it is compared to another clock. Also it has been shown that the rate of accumulating clock second of a clock is dependent on its motion. A clock will accumulate clock seconds at a slower rate after acceleration.
> > 
> > But this has as much to do with your wording as with any physics. A minor change
> > makes your statement correct:
> > 
> > 	A clock accumulates at a slower rate COMPARED TO A CLOCK IN
> > 	A FRAME RELATIVE TO WHICH IT IS MOVING.
> 
> This is not a correct statement.....Why? Because you assumed a preferred frame. In >real life all clocks are moving. The problem is that we don't know which clock is >moving faster and thus we must onclude that fact that the observer's clock is slower

I should correct or add to what I said:
In real life all clocks are moving. The problem is that between two clocks A and B we don't know which clock is moving faster. Therefore  our predictions must include the observed fact that one of the clocks will accumulate clock seconds at a faster rate than the other. This means that A must have two equations to predict the rate of B as follows: 
For an IRT observer A's point of view:
Delta(Tb)=Delta(Ta)/gamma
This equation says that clock B is accumulating clock seconds at a slower rate of 1/gamma than clock A.
OR
 Delta(Tb')=Gamma*Delta(Ta)
This equation says that clock B is accumulating clock seconds at a faster rate than clock A by a factor of gamma.

Only one of the above equations will give the correct result. SR says that from A's point of view B is accumulating clock second at a slower rate of 1/gamma. The reason is that every SR observer considers that he is preferred.

A paper on IRT is available in the following link:
htttp://www.modelmechanics.org/2015irt.pdf

nd B have two equations to predict the rate of A.

Thread

SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-06 09:18 -0700
  Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 09:26 -0700
    Re: SR is just another name for LET kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-06 12:53 -0400
    Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-06 11:38 -0700
      Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 15:25 -0700
      Re: SR is just another name for LET "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-09-06 17:16 -0700
        Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <set...@att.net> - 2015-09-07 01:39 +0000
        Re: SR is just another name for LET moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-09-07 02:44 +0000
          Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 19:56 -0700
  Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-06 10:00 -0700
    Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-06 11:50 -0700
      Re: SR is just another name for LET kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-06 15:24 -0400
        Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-06 12:47 -0700
      Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-06 13:25 -0700
  Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-06 18:33 -0500
    Re: SR is just another name for LET Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2015-09-06 17:52 -0600
      Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-06 17:55 -0700
        Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-06 18:47 -0700
      Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-06 22:19 -0500
        Re: SR is just another name for LET Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2015-09-07 09:18 -0600
          Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 08:39 -0700
            Re: SR is just another name for LET Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2015-09-07 10:05 -0600
              Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 09:34 -0700
                Pretender Stephane Baune strikes again. "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-09-07 12:10 -0700
              Re: SR is just another name for LET Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-09-07 21:48 +0200
            Re: SR is just another name for LET kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-07 12:37 -0400
              Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 09:53 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-07 13:13 -0400
                Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 10:24 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-07 14:42 -0400
                Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 13:06 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-07 16:50 -0400
                Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 14:23 -0700
            Re: SR is just another name for LET wugi <brol@brol.be> - 2015-09-12 17:07 +0200
              Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-12 14:08 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Frances Espinosa <franesp@portio.org> - 2015-09-12 20:07 +0000
                Re: SR is just another name for LET JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 13:50 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Frances Espinosa <franesp@portio.org> - 2015-09-12 21:25 +0000
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-09-13 10:21 +0200
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-12 19:45 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-13 06:00 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-13 09:14 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-13 09:12 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-13 16:34 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 12:50 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-14 16:20 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-09-14 23:26 +0200
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Frances Espinosa <franesp@portio.org> - 2015-09-14 22:36 +0000
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-15 07:01 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 09:11 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-15 08:00 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 10:15 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-15 13:40 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 16:21 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-16 06:28 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-16 11:15 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-16 11:36 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-16 16:22 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-16 19:03 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-17 08:18 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-17 10:32 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-17 08:43 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-17 12:16 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-16 19:04 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-17 08:20 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-17 07:09 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-16 16:21 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 08:30 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-15 14:43 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-15 06:51 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 09:10 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-09-13 20:49 +0200
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 00:20 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Frances Espinosa <franesp@portio.org> - 2015-09-13 14:37 +0000
                Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-13 11:17 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET wugi <brol@brol.be> - 2015-09-13 21:15 +0200
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-13 15:46 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-14 09:17 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 00:16 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-14 03:53 -0400
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-14 07:15 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-14 11:12 -0400
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-14 10:18 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-14 16:37 -0400
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-14 12:55 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-14 11:13 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-09-14 22:08 +0200
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 23:25 -0700
              Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 14:03 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET wugi <brol@brol.be> - 2015-09-15 18:42 +0200
                Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 11:46 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET wugi <brol@brol.be> - 2015-09-16 16:10 +0200
                Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-16 08:15 -0700
          Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-07 10:38 -0700
            Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 12:55 -0700
          Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-08 10:23 -0500
            Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 09:29 -0700
            Re: SR is just another name for LET Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2015-09-08 10:44 -0600
              Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 10:11 -0700
                Stephane Baune poser strikes again "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-09-08 11:30 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2015-09-08 12:50 -0600
                Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 12:23 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2015-09-08 13:46 -0600
                Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 13:02 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2015-09-08 15:27 -0600
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 09:10 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-09 08:05 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-10 23:52 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-11 08:33 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-11 13:53 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-11 14:11 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-10 23:50 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2015-09-11 11:02 -0600
                Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-08 13:26 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-10 23:39 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 23:00 -0700
              Re: SR is just another name for LET Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-09-08 20:47 +0200
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-08 14:23 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2015-09-08 15:36 -0600
          Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 13:55 -0500
        Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-07 10:58 -0700
          Re: SR is just another name for LET kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-07 14:56 -0400
            Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-07 12:29 -0700
              Re: SR is just another name for LET kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-07 16:39 -0400
                Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-08 10:05 -0700
    Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-06 17:35 -0700
      Re: SR is just another name for LET Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-06 22:22 -0500
        Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-07 06:21 -0700
          Re: SR is just another name for LET kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-07 09:35 -0400
            Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 06:42 -0700
          Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 13:38 -0500
          Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 13:39 -0500
            Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-09 08:36 -0700
              Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 10:50 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-09 20:23 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 20:30 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 08:01 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-11 09:53 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 12:07 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 10:54 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-11 14:24 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET alsor@interia.pl - 2015-09-11 14:48 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 16:48 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-12 06:10 -0700
                Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 22:13 -0500
                Re: SR is just another name for LET rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 10:45 -0700
      Re: SR is just another name for LET Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 13:35 -0500
        Re: SR is just another name for LET kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-09 08:41 -0700
  SR is just another name for LET fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-09-16 06:50 -0700
    Re: SR is just another name for LET kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-09-16 10:59 -0400
      Re: SR is just another name for LET fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-09-16 11:24 -0700

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