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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #446718
| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.electronics.design |
| Subject | Re: H-1B Reform |
| Date | 2017-02-07 20:33 -0500 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <o7dsdu$q8j$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <efoubhFqrcqU1@mid.individual.net> <o79be6$a2l$1@dont-email.me> <efrkagFcri7U1@mid.individual.net> <o7b4nb$tle$1@dont-email.me> <efu9c5Fter0U1@mid.individual.net> |
On 2/7/2017 11:02 AM, Joerg wrote: > On 2017-02-06 16:36, rickman wrote: >> On 2/6/2017 10:51 AM, Joerg wrote: >>> On 2017-02-06 00:18, rickman wrote: >>>> On 2/5/2017 10:23 AM, Joerg wrote: >>>>> On 2017-02-04 22:52, dakupoto@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 8:12:03 PM UTC-5, Martin Riddle >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:16:27 -0800 (PST), >>>>>>> bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is going to fly like a lead balloon: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/zg8k64f >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So instead of displacing 1 american worker, they'll displace 2? >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Huh? How can a single engineer do the work of two on a consistent >>>>> basis? >>>>> The day has only 24h. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> >>>>>> That is very well said. And now more and more >>>>>> US high tech companies will try to outsource >>>>>> as many of their jobs as possible to off-shore >>>>>> sites. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> They'll do that anyhow and that's got nothing to do with H1B. >>>>> Running a >>>>> software outfit overseas is cheaper than paying for travel and housing >>>>> of someone temporarily moved over here. The pay will also be much >>>>> lower >>>>> because the cost of daily life is much lower in many countries >>>>> overseas. >>>>> Also, there can't be import tariffs on it because their work results >>>>> will flow across the borders on "singing wires". >>>>> >>>>> Raising and most of all enforcing the required wage is the perfect way >>>>> to fix H1B and I've always said that. Finally we have an >>>>> administration >>>>> that understand it. H1B is meant to haul in talent where we truly >>>>> can't >>>>> find an engineer for, not to obtain work results cheaper. The >>>>> companies >>>>> I worked for used H1B for exactly that intended purpose and they paid >>>>> beaucoup bucks for those folks in salary. >>>> >>>> The required wage for H-1B workers has always been the prevailing wage. >>>> But I seem to recall that most of the jobs being filled by this workers >>>> have not been higher paying engineering jobs. Still, enforcement has >>>> been the hard and ineffective part. >>>> >>> >>> Correct, because the bureaucrats who could have monitored this with ease >>> were asleep at the wheel. That is now likely going to change and it >>> should. >> >> Yes, the cause of every problem is somnambulist civil servants. Mostly >> likely the cause is lack of sufficient resources allocated by Congress. >> Trump and Congress can pass any law they want, but if they don't pony up >> the money to pay for enforcement.... >> > > A computer can monitor this. One method: Each H1B visa holder must agree > that their tax return info _and_ monthly bank account balances are > automatically sent over to the DOL. There, the computer crunches the > numbers. Only when the computer goes BEEEEP does anyone look into the > numbers and sends out an auditor. These people can be paid from a pot > filled by the penalties that abusing companies are slapped with. No need > to allocate anything. Simple. Can we hire H-1B visa holders to program the computers? >>> We need H1B and the law is already quite good as it is, always has been. >>> The problem is a de-facto non-enforcement of the rules in this law. I >>> have personally met people who were let go and then replaced by an H1B >>> worker. This is wrong. So we need to get back to applying H1B the way it >>> was always intended, obtaining talent which we truly cannot find in >>> America or simply do not have enough of. >> >> My cousin was one of those people. He literally trained his >> replacement. But he wouldn't report them. In the end after six months >> or so they hired him back... then laid him off again later on. Then he >> came back as a contractor getting paid much more. You have to work the >> system to your benefit. >> > > He was lucky. Others weren't so lucky. Anyhow, with the new rules that > will hopefully end soon. I don't recall the details, but when I dug into the H-1B thing the vast majority of visa holders worked for huge temp companies essentially and they were not doing high level engineering work. It was more like IT or similar level work. Ask a company to pay them $130k a year will simply kill the entire H-1B program. I believe you are addressing a problem that isn't really very big. >>>> Outsourcing has been tried for design work and it has often proved >>>> ineffective. The examples I have been witness to failed because of a >>>> lack of communication where written requirements didn't fully capture >>>> what was needed in a design and there were no design reviews involving >>>> the US company. The result was a product that met spec, but didn't >>>> provide what was really needed. >>>> >>> >>> True, and it can lead to the whole project being outsourced because then >>> there are less disconnects. Or is can result in failure. >> >> You mean disband the company and start again as an Indian start up? >> > > Some outsource whole projects offshore and it doesn't matter much > whether they start something knew there or use an existing contracting > house. It can work but with intricate projects it can seriously > backfire. I know some examples where it did. I believe most companies have learned their lesson about that. >>>> I know when I have worked in companies producing products for a >>>> competitive marketplace, there was *lots* of interaction between all >>>> the >>>> departments involved. It would have been very hard to produce a >>>> product >>>> other than what was intended by the marketing group. >>>> >>> >>> Marketing-driven businesses can be a problem though. I have seen some. >>> Mostly because marketing folks often think too short term and most of >>> all in a reaction-mode. "Oh, we just saw the competition has an XYZ >>> wombombulator function so we absolutely need that by this coming trade >>> show". I am quite glad to not be exposed to this all that much anymore. >>> My current clients operate in true visionary mode. >> >> "Marketing driven" is a term that means just what you want it to mean. A >> company needs marketing and if the engineering department fails to >> negotiate the requirements and/or fails to meet those requirements, then >> where are they? Customers will buy what they want and if you don't give >> it to them, you won't be designing anything in the future. >> > > What I meant by that is what I saw a lot over my career: Sales and > marketing folks are very much in an "instant gratification" mode, they > do not think very long term. Engineers usually do. What this resulted in > is that good engineering ideas withered because marketing demanded that > 100% of the available manpower was spent on existing product design > improvements. I know quite well how marketing folks think because I > married my very first contact with a marketing department :-) I don't know what companies you have worked for, but "gratification" comes from management. They make the rules and if they reward marketing for doing lousy work, that's not marketing's fault. We *all* respond to the stimulus and rewards we receive. Engineering as well. -- Rick C
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H-1B Reform bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-01-31 08:16 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-01-31 09:15 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Martin Riddle <martin_rid@verizon.net> - 2017-01-31 20:11 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-01-31 22:49 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform dakupoto@gmail.com - 2017-02-04 22:52 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-05 07:23 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-05 18:02 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:27 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-06 20:26 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 07:49 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 12:18 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 10:02 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 20:21 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:08 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 12:28 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 10:05 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:13 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:16 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:13 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:19 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-08 13:42 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:06 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 03:18 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:17 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:51 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform makolber@yahoo.com - 2017-02-06 10:08 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:11 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 12:53 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:22 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:36 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-08 17:20 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:14 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 19:36 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 08:02 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-07 17:01 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 20:33 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:18 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:02 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 14:36 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 21:12 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:42 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-09 11:02 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 10:36 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 14:34 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:27 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 15:33 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:40 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 17:58 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 17:10 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 09:24 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 18:05 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:18 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:41 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:31 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 22:05 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 14:56 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 10:32 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-02-05 19:15 +0100
Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 23:06 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:24 -0800
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