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Re: H-1B Reform

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On 2017-02-06 14:05, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 06/02/17 21:31, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2017-02-06 12:41, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>> On 06/02/17 18:18, Joerg wrote:
>>>> On 2017-02-06 10:05, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>> On 06/02/17 17:24, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>>>>>> Den mandag den 6. februar 2017 kl. 18.10.51 UTC+1 skrev Tom Gardner:
>>>>>>> On 05/02/17 15:23, Joerg wrote:
>>>>>>>> Raising and most of all enforcing the required wage is the perfect
>>>>>>>> way to fix
>>>>>>>> H1B and I've always said that. Finally we have an administration
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>> it. H1B is meant to haul in talent where we truly can't find an
>>>>>>>> engineer for,
>>>>>>>> not to obtain work results cheaper.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't disagree with that, but companies have lawyers
>>>>>>> that are adept at obeying the letter of the law while
>>>>>>> flouting the spirit of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And obvious technique would be to pay someone $150k
>>>>>>> and then "suggest" they lived in luxurious accommodation
>>>>>>> costing $100k. It would be shocking, /shocking/, if
>>>>>>> that accommodation was also owned by an affiliate
>>>>>>> company :(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> there has been several cases of something similar here, not
>>>>>> with visas but with usually eastern European workers that on
>>>>>> paper is being paid the union agreement rate but then charged
>>>>>> an obscene rent for an apartment owned by the company
>>>>>
>>>>> Why am I not surprised!
>>>>>
>>>>> In the late 19th century the UK introduced laws
>>>>> that prevented employers forcing employees to
>>>>> purchase everything in their shops.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Easily detected. The H1B visa holder must file a tax return in the
>>>> country where
>>>> he or she works. Now a $150k will trigger a very hefty tax which, with
>>>> all the
>>>> social securtity taxes, local taxes and whatnot reaches lofty heights.
>>>> Assume
>>>> the tax bill comes to $60k. How is that person going to pay the tax
>>>> bill if only
>>>> $50k is actually paid out?
>>>
>>> Oh, come on. I simply magicked figures out
>>> of thin air with zero justification! Choose
>>> any other figures if you wish; the principle
>>> remains.
>>>
>>
>> It is still detectable. If there is a will, and that was usually the
>> problem.
>>
>>>
>>>> Huge and unusual deductions or cooking an income tax statement is
>>>> fraud which
>>>> can be automatically fished out if the bureaucrats put their mind to
>>>> it.
>>>
>>> What deductions are you referring to?
>>> Or does the IRS actually determine that
>>> you are paying too much /taxed/ income
>>> for rent?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Then there are spot checks and these can include what tax pros call a
>>>> "root
>>>> canal audit". This is where the tax inspectors look at actual bank
>>>> statements
>>>> and such. Afterwards some of the higher-ups in the company would
>>>> probably be
>>>> escorted out in handcuffs.
>>>
>>> I don't think it is beyond the wit of
>>> accountants to figure that out. If the
>>> taxman is getting the "right" amount of
>>> tax, then do they /really/ care how
>>> citizens spend the rest?
>>>
>>
>> This is not the tax man, this is about visa abuse.
>
> Indeed, but money was at the centre of the valid visa check.
>

Hence the tax authority should be engaged here. Just like other agencies 
sometimes work together when something needs to be looked at on another 
agency's turf. Which is clearly the case here.

>
>> Therefore, it is up to the
>> Department of Labor to engage the IRS in a field check. They will
>> likely have to
>> reimburse the IRS for that. However, I am sure that even the IRS agent
>> would
>> raise an eyebrow if the net amount reported on an H1B employee's
>> formal income
>> statement does not match what arrived in his bank account.
>
> The same amount would arrive in their account.
>
>
>> Same if that bank
>> account is controlled by a 3rd party
>
> It wouldn't need to be.
>

Do you have examples where that really happened? Where things hit the 
fan and it made it into the media?

>
>> or large amounts of money would vanish from
>> it every pay cycle.
>
> It wouldn't "vanish" per se; it would be paid out as
> rent/whatever.
>

That would hit the fan in a root canal audit where they are looking for 
major money inflows and outflows. The IRS has a vested interest in 
people not shoveling money into some offshore account without declaring 
that. Therefore, a high reported income combined with paltry asset 
build-up and no filed form 8938 creates an immediate red flag. "What, do 
you rent a mansion? Where is it? Can we see it?"


> The ability to disguise the ultimate beneficiary
> of payments is a very well developed art :(
>

If the auditors were on their toes the company owners or executives 
would need a very seasoned mobster defense attorney to get out of that one.

>
>> That is a hard red flag for fraud. It is usually a sign that
>> the involved entities are also engaged in other "creative" methods.
>
> Is it fraud if someone pays over the odds for something?
>

If he is forced to and this happens to scores of other people, yes. It 
is only a matter of time until one of them will sing or until a tax 
audit happens. As long as there are people investigating and that's what 
didn't happen in the past. Prevailing wage was a toothless rule. Until now.


> Fundamentally I seriously dislike the abuse of visa
> systems to transfer jobs abroad. If anything can reduce
> that, I'm in favour of it. But I don't believe a simple
> "salary >$x" is a sufficient disincentive.


It is _if_ there is enforcement. Just like with any law. If the minimum 
salary level is set to $130k it would be a dangerous stretch to make an 
H1B holder pay $10k/month rent for some small 2BR apartment in a seedy 
part of town.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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H-1B Reform bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-01-31 08:16 -0800
  Re: H-1B Reform George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-01-31 09:15 -0800
  Re: H-1B Reform Martin Riddle <martin_rid@verizon.net> - 2017-01-31 20:11 -0500
    Re: H-1B Reform Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-01-31 22:49 -0500
    Re: H-1B Reform dakupoto@gmail.com - 2017-02-04 22:52 -0800
      Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-05 07:23 -0800
        Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-05 18:02 -0500
          Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:27 -0800
            Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-06 20:26 -0500
              Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 07:49 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 12:18 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 10:02 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 20:21 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:08 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 12:28 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 10:05 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:13 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:16 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:13 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:19 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-08 13:42 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:06 -0800
        Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 03:18 -0500
          Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:17 -0800
          Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:51 -0800
            Re: H-1B Reform makolber@yahoo.com - 2017-02-06 10:08 -0800
              Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:11 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 12:53 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:22 -0800
              Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:36 +0000
              Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-08 17:20 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:14 -0500
            Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 19:36 -0500
              Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 08:02 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-07 17:01 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 20:33 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:18 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:02 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 14:36 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 21:12 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:42 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-09 11:02 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 10:36 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 14:34 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:27 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 15:33 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:40 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 17:58 -0800
        Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 17:10 +0000
          Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 09:24 -0800
            Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 18:05 +0000
              Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:18 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:41 +0000
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:31 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 22:05 +0000
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 14:56 -0800
      Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 10:32 -0500
        Re: H-1B Reform Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-02-05 19:15 +0100
          Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 23:06 -0500
            Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:24 -0800

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