Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > alt.atheism > #2585255

Re: Who pays for Illegals?

From Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Newsgroups talk.politics.guns, misc.survivalism, alt.atheism, alt.politics.economics, alt.philosophy, alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject Re: Who pays for Illegals?
Date 2019-01-24 12:03 -0700
Message-ID <gaugftF8vjaU3@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (18 earlier) <q2cn7d$i8r$1@dont-email.me> <gau61vF6n99U3@mid.individual.net> <q2csni$l7i$1@dont-email.me> <gaueo5F8i31U3@mid.individual.net> <q2d0s8$goe$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 6 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

On 1/24/19 11:41 AM, Peter Franks wrote:
> On 1/24/2019 10:33 AM, Snit wrote:
>> On 1/24/19 10:30 AM, Peter Franks wrote:
>>> On 1/24/2019 8:05 AM, Snit wrote:
>>>> Peter Franks <none@none.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 1/24/2019 7:50 AM, Peter Franks wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/24/2019 7:22 AM, jim wrote:
>>>>>>> Peter Franks wrote on 1/23/2019 8:58 PM:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I prefer a comparison that looks beyond the "rate"
>>>>>>>>> on taxable income.  A comparison that looks at
>>>>>>>>> the total tax and the total income
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you think it is progressive when the "rate " is
>>>>>>>>> applied to 100% of the low income worker while
>>>>>>>>> applied to only 1% of what the highest earner
>>>>>>>>> makes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sounds to me like you are arguing against the accepted definition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I am arguing against accepted definitions. It took you
>>>>>>> long enough to figure that out. The tax code is composed
>>>>>>> mostly of definitions. If you simply accept the definitions
>>>>>>> as being equitable and reasonable...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did no such thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Further, this portion of the discussion originated with my statement
>>>>> that "Taxes aren't universally applied (they are progressive), so 
>>>>> it is
>>>>> no longer universal healthcare." which was speaking /specifically/ to
>>>>> universal health care.  In that case the system of taxation is most
>>>>> definitely progressive.  Honestly though, I don't really care what you
>>>>> call it.  Just accept the simple fact that it is NOT universal, it 
>>>>> is an
>>>>> entitlement.
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Universal' is quite simply a system where everyone pays the same for
>>>>> the same benefit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Universal health care is an entitlement program.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are all entitled to basic health care. Sure.
>>>
>>> Am I still entitled if I don't pay taxes?
>>
>> If you are 6 years old you still get health care.
>> If you are a disabled vet you still get health care.
>> If you are otherwise disabled you STILL get health care.
>>
>> Yes, in a modern civilization of enormous wealth there is NO reason 
>> for you to not get basic health care, no matter how badly right 
>> wingers want to push their death panels.
> 
> Am I still entitled if I don't pay taxes?

See the above, with the assumption that the 6 year old and the disabled, 
and others unable to work, are all not paying taxes (though really that 
is a false assumption -- they almost surely pay SALES taxes). And when 
you include that they pay roughly the same percent in taxes as middle 
class Americans... maybe 10% less.

I do not have handy more current data, but here you can see even the 
very poorest (the bottom 20%) pay 17.4%, where they top 1% pay only 29%. 
And with the top 1% keep in mind that is on their CLAIMED income, and in 
general with deductions to help cover their food and entertainment and 
other personal expenses. I think we can safely say they pay at least 10% 
less than in reality than what is reported.

I personally would have no problem with the bottom 20% paying a 
considerably lower percent of the income into taxes, nor a problem with 
the very rich paying AT LEAST what the middle class does, not less.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a58a5a9ee10a


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

Back to alt.atheism | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-20 16:31 -0600
  Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-20 15:49 -0700
    Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-20 17:37 -0600
      Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-20 17:03 -0700
        Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-20 18:37 -0600
        Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-20 21:12 -0700
          Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-20 22:17 -0700
            Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-21 06:36 +0000
              Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-21 02:04 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-21 09:10 +0000
              Re: Who pays for Illegals? Klaus  Schadenfreude <klausschadenfreude@null.net> - 2019-01-22 04:20 -0800
          Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingN0Sp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-21 07:42 -0600
            Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-21 15:49 +0000
              Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-21 10:38 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-21 18:03 +0000
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-21 11:05 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-21 11:20 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-21 11:29 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-21 14:20 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-21 14:23 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-21 15:03 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-22 06:23 +0000
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-21 12:54 -0600
        Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-21 10:23 -0600
  Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-20 16:43 -0700
    Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-20 18:21 -0600
  Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-22 07:41 -0800
    Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-22 09:28 -0700
      Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-22 11:06 -0800
        Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-22 14:07 -0700
          Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-23 09:51 -0800
            Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-23 19:29 +0000
              Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-23 13:46 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-23 17:33 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-23 18:54 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-24 09:39 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 07:48 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-24 12:44 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 12:23 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 14:04 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-24 17:36 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Ted <francisgerard@tutanota.com> - 2019-01-25 00:55 +0000
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-24 19:22 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 23:52 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-25 03:00 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-25 09:29 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-25 10:48 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 19:32 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-25 09:30 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-25 10:47 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 21:50 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-24 22:49 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-25 07:48 +0000
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-25 03:01 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 08:43 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-25 12:35 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-25 12:47 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 16:23 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-25 14:38 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 17:24 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-24 17:02 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-25 07:48 +0000
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-25 08:03 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 10:26 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-25 08:47 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-25 09:32 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-25 16:27 +0000
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 07:59 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-25 08:06 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-25 16:29 +0000
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-25 08:45 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 14:13 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 13:48 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-25 12:52 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 16:54 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-25 16:06 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 10:53 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-25 09:02 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 14:25 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? BeamMeUpScotty <Not-Sure@idiocracy.gov> - 2019-01-25 16:20 -0500
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 16:04 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-25 14:18 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 16:34 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-25 14:40 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 21:34 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-25 20:08 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-26 06:14 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-26 08:01 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-26 11:15 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-26 10:19 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-26 13:49 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-27 07:44 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-27 12:11 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-27 11:25 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-27 14:12 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-27 19:49 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-28 08:27 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-28 07:40 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-28 08:21 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Mitchell Holman <noemail@verizont.net> - 2019-01-27 12:41 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? BeamMeUpScotty <Not-Sure@idiocracy.gov> - 2019-01-28 07:20 -0500
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Mitchell Holman <noemail@verizont.net> - 2019-01-28 07:58 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? BeamMeUpScotty <Not-Sure@idiocracy.gov> - 2019-01-27 09:38 -0500
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2019-01-26 14:47 -0500
                Who's taxes pay for Illegals? BeamMeUpScotty <Not-Sure@idiocracy.gov> - 2019-01-25 17:19 -0500
                Re: Who's taxes pay for Illegals? % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-25 15:23 -0700
                Re: Who's taxes pay for Illegals? Ted <francisgerard@tutanota.com> - 2019-01-26 21:04 +0000
                Who's taxes pay for Illegal aliens and incompetent Democrat run businesses? BeamMeUpScotty <Not-Sure@idiocracy.gov> - 2019-01-26 14:06 -0500
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-24 15:22 -0600
    Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-23 09:46 -0600
      Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-23 09:52 -0800
        Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-23 14:38 -0600
          Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-23 13:48 -0800
            Re: Who pays for Illegals? Ted <francisgerard@tutanota.com> - 2019-01-23 21:55 +0000
              Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-23 18:56 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Ted <francisgerard@tutanota.com> - 2019-01-24 03:07 +0000
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 06:37 -0800
            Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-23 17:46 -0600
              Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-23 18:58 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-24 09:22 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 07:50 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 07:56 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 16:05 +0000
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 09:30 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 11:33 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 10:41 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 12:03 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-24 12:42 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 12:24 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 14:05 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 14:13 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 13:56 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-24 17:33 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 23:59 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-25 03:08 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-25 08:17 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-25 08:12 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-25 09:35 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-25 10:45 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-25 10:50 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-25 15:58 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-25 16:10 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-25 17:16 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-25 16:40 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-25 17:28 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-25 09:45 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 12:24 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 14:05 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 13:57 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-24 12:16 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 11:28 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 10:37 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 11:45 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 12:25 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 14:03 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 13:57 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-24 17:37 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-25 09:47 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-24 12:13 -0600
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Peter Franks <none@none.com> - 2019-01-24 10:34 -0800
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-24 11:46 -0700
                Re: Who pays for Illegals? jim <"sjedgingNOSp@m"@mwt.net> - 2019-01-24 12:50 -0600

csiph-web