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Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE

From "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc, alt.comp.os.windows-11
Subject Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE
Date 2025-08-22 00:43 +0200
Message-ID <l0kknlxj6r.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <1071hu3$1idk1$1@news1.tnib.de> <9fjemlxbio.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <mfkffeFihg2U1@mid.individual.net> <6jefmlxb6j.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <10884l7$173em$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 2025-08-21 23:55, Paul wrote:
> On Thu, 8/7/2025 4:23 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-08-07 22:09, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 14:40:41 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't know about those, but "real" floppy drives did not have an
>>>> actual controller, rather an interface. Nothing smart. The CPU had to
>>>> time all operations itself. Notice when the hole marking start of track
>>>> passes, read, count sectors, time the write operation... everything.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Digital_FD1771
>>>
>>> I don't know what you consider a 'real' floppy.
>>
>> Not an USB connected floppy driver, but any of the ones we bough in the 80's or 80's to install on our PCs.
> 
> The ones in the early days, used the main CPU as an IOP and
> the CPU was required to respond in real time (NOPs to adjust the
> timing), when writing after seeing an index mark. If you were
> smart (not many people were smart back then), you would use an
> IOP to control a thing like this and hide the details.
> 
>     https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/765_FDC
> 
> Even though our OS was multitasking, and most I/O was async,
> the floppy was the exception, as the management felt (of all things),
> they would not bother doing a separate IOP for the floppy and
> they would drive it directly. Other functions, used a 6809 as an
> IOP. One of the funny/ironic parts, is the PCB with the '765 on it,
> had scads of room for an IOP, the PCB was only 25% used. It's likely
> the hardest part of such a design, would be finding someone to write
> firmware for such crusty materials (not as easy as you would think).
> The person who tweaked the assembler for that dumb floppy chip,
> he used to use a 465 oscilloscope, to check that his timing was
> correct at the hardware level. That is what a pain in the ass
> this particular interface is. Oscilloscope material, and needs
> scoping every time something changes elsewhere in the system.
> If the main CPU changed from 8MHz to 12MHz, the source has to be
> opened up again and tuned. (The 465 was preferred for this, because
> you could wheel the scope cart into a cubicle and it would fit.)
> 
> When you did any I/O on the (direct-drive) floppy, the entire OS would stop,
> the code would enter the floppy assembler and "do stuff".
> 
> There were other companies doing this too. When AppleTalk (on a
> serial port at perhaps 224Kbit/sec) wanted to send packets, I
> think that took assembler code to keep up, and any kind of
> tasking went out the window during network operations. At a comparable
> time where I worked, we considered it a "victory" when a serial
> port ran at 9600 :-)

Yep.

I know of this because back then I read an article in a computer 
magazine where they wrote a "driver" or something that multiplied the 
capacity of floppies, playing with the timings. The article went into 
all the gory details.

I wonder how Linux implemented the floppy routines, though. At some 
point, someone had to write floppy handling code that worked on any PC, 
CPU and speed.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-21 17:55 -0400
  Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 00:43 +0200
    Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-21 22:40 -0400
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 04:30 +0000
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 03:30 -0400
        Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 12:23 +0200
          Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 09:59 -0400
            Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 20:50 +0200
              Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 00:34 -0400
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:05 +0200
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-24 19:19 +0000
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:20 +0200
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 21:32 +0000
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:44 +0200
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-25 02:13 -0400
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:44 +0100
          Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 18:55 +0000
            Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:59 +0200
              Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:05 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 23:21 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:34 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-23 01:28 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 04:13 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 11:39 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 03:15 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 19:06 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 20:12 +0100
              Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 04:07 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 19:04 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 20:11 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 04:05 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 04:20 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:28 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:27 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:14 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 16:59 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-24 19:19 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-23 21:15 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 04:16 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:19 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 19:19 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:17 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 19:21 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:24 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-25 17:53 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:29 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:42 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-25 13:36 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 13:06 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-25 14:34 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 03:51 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 10:36 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 06:11 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-26 08:29 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 19:39 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-26 04:23 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 10:34 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 06:07 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:26 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 21:51 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:27 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:23 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 21:48 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:21 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:12 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 17:07 +0100
          Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-22 23:29 -0700
            Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 21:53 +0000
              Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:24 +0100
        Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 11:26 +0100
          Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 10:00 -0400
            Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 19:41 +0100
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 12:02 +0200
        Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-23 21:21 +0000
          Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:23 +0100
            Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:37 +0200
          Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:18 +0200
            Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 16:58 +0100
              Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:37 +0200
    Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 11:22 +0100
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-08-22 10:47 +0000
        Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 19:39 +0100
        Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 19:23 +0000
          Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 01:38 -0400
            Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-23 18:02 +0000
              Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 03:49 -0400
                Re: The "Standards" Game Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-25 03:12 +0000
                Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:48 +0100
                Present at the Creation (Re: The "Standards" Game) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-25 13:03 +0000
  Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-21 22:17 -0700

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