Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE]

From	The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc, alt.comp.os.windows-11, alt.defense
Subject	Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE]
Date	2025-08-25 11:42 +0100
Organization	A little, after lunch
Message-ID	<108hemb$3bl64$6@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(18 earlier) <CBSdndEZf8hO6zT1nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> <mguhl0FjqjdU1@mid.individual.net> <slrn10akbrh.1aqg.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> <108eosa$2n9v5$13@dont-email.me> <5rcsnlxki6.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On 24/08/2025 22:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-08-24 12:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 23/08/2025 22:15, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>> On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 04:07:36 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>     Hypersonics + AI drones ... the likely, NEAR, maybe immediate, 
>>>>> future
>>>>>     of "defense". Bombers, tanks, subs,
>>>>>     ICBMs, carriers - just forget it ...  all Yesterday's Solutions.
>>>
>>> On 2025-08-23, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>> https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/us-navy-drone-efforts-arent- 
>>>> going-
>>>> well-neither-are-chinas-ps-082225
>>>>
>>>> Maybe...
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zClEHMU8W_4
>>>>
>>>> The Thresher incident might have been swept under the carpet but there
>>>> were a number of civilian ride-alongs from the Portsmouth Naval 
>>>> Shipyard
>>>> that had worked on the project and were being rewarded.
>>>>
>>>> Christa McAuliffe was also a New Hampshire teacher who was a ride- 
>>>> along on
>>>> the Challenger. Somehow New Hampshire is suspicious of the government
>>>> bearing gifts. Or at least it was.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe someday it will be a War of the Drones but ultimately it will be
>>>> boots on the ground as it has been for millennia.
>>>
>>> What I see in the Ukraine reports is that
>>> - tanks do not to well to take and hold urban and suburban areas
>>>    because civialian/reserve/guerillas have agility
>>
>> Tanks do not do well at all. A drone can easily take out a tank - 
>> especially a Soviet era tank
>>
>>> - tanks do well in open farmland,
>>
>> Not if its littered with mines. Or if there is any kind of anti tank 
>> weaponry on the other side. Hand held anti-tank munitions, drones, 
>> mines...the Ukrainians do better with the Bradleys  - fast 
>> manoeuvrable and with care the cannon can disable a tanks eyes and 
>> ears...and infantry can be deployed.
>>
>>>    but if forces are close to evenly
>>>    matched, the game shifts to who has or can ret (by resupply) the most
>>>    ammunition
>> And that is why Ukraine is winning. They don't have the men on the 
>> ground but the quantity or long range fires they  now have is 
>> dismantling Russia refinery by railway by bridge by ammunition factory.
>>
>> Water, gasoline, electricity - these are now all very scarce indeed, 
>> Inflation is rampant and bank accounts are closed.
>>
>>> - smart and well-trained boots on the ground of their homeland can
>>>    inflict heavy losses on poorly trained invaders
>>
>> That is the equation. Let Russia come, and take 5:1 casualties in 
>> exchange fir a few villages that have been shelled to ruins already, 
>> while spending all the time sniping away with long range drones and 
>> missiles.
>> Ukraine isn't winning ground, but that's not where the war is. It's 
>> winning the battle of the supply lines.
> 
> The problem is Trump.
> 
Actually, I think that he is less and less a problem.

Having shaken up the arms supply industry on account of not letting US 
made weapons or components thereof fall on Russian soil, basically 
European nations have said 'OK, then let's help Ukraine build its *own* 
missiles'.

The latest Ukrainian Flamingo missile bears a remarkable resemblance to 
one made by IIRC a British company. 2000 mile range, jet powered cruise 
missile. With a one ton warhead and a circular accuracy of 35 metres.

They already make their own 'shahed' style drones capable of doing 
extreme unpleasantness to oil refineries.

Trump we now understand is a senile old blowhard who likes nothing more 
than flattery which costs is nothing, except cash in his bank account.

Meanwhile we get on with life without America, which is much simpler.

Trump has no cards left to play.



-- 
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale 
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

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Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-21 17:55 -0400
  Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 00:43 +0200
    Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-21 22:40 -0400
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 04:30 +0000
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 03:30 -0400
        Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 12:23 +0200
          Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 09:59 -0400
            Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 20:50 +0200
              Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 00:34 -0400
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:05 +0200
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-24 19:19 +0000
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:20 +0200
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 21:32 +0000
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:44 +0200
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-25 02:13 -0400
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:44 +0100
          Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 18:55 +0000
            Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:59 +0200
              Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:05 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 23:21 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:34 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-23 01:28 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 04:13 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 11:39 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 03:15 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 19:06 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 20:12 +0100
              Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 04:07 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 19:04 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 20:11 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 04:05 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 04:20 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:28 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:27 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:14 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 16:59 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-24 19:19 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-23 21:15 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 04:16 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:19 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 19:19 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:17 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 19:21 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:24 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-25 17:53 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:29 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:42 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-25 13:36 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 13:06 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-25 14:34 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 03:51 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 10:36 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 06:11 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-26 08:29 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 19:39 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-08-27 16:53 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-27 12:52 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-27 22:02 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-27 21:31 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 04:15 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-28 10:36 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 06:24 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-28 12:26 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 04:11 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-28 09:44 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-28 18:03 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-28 18:10 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-28 12:12 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-29 10:52 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-28 21:44 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-29 03:32 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-29 11:12 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-29 17:43 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-29 19:16 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-29 22:50 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-30 03:11 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-27 21:29 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-27 20:40 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-27 14:56 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-28 02:30 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 03:45 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-26 04:23 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 10:34 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 06:07 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:26 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 21:51 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:27 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:23 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 21:48 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:21 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:12 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 17:07 +0100
          Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-22 23:29 -0700
            Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 21:53 +0000
              Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:24 +0100
        Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 11:26 +0100
          Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 10:00 -0400
            Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 19:41 +0100
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 12:02 +0200
        Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-23 21:21 +0000
          Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:23 +0100
            Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:37 +0200
          Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:18 +0200
            Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 16:58 +0100
              Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:37 +0200
    Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 11:22 +0100
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-08-22 10:47 +0000
        Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 19:39 +0100
        Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 19:23 +0000
          Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 01:38 -0400
            Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-23 18:02 +0000
              Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 03:49 -0400
                Re: The "Standards" Game Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-25 03:12 +0000
                Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:48 +0100
                Present at the Creation (Re: The "Standards" Game) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-25 13:03 +0000
  Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-21 22:17 -0700

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