Present at the Creation (Re: The "Standards" Game)

From	Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc, alt.comp.os.windows-11, alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Present at the Creation (Re: The "Standards" Game)
Followup-To	alt.folklore.computers
Date	2025-08-25 13:03 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<slrn10aonp0.v6n4.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <eYScnSdXZ61SzjT1nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> <TmnqQ.613437$xyt3.456144@fx15.iad> <ijmdnXXgrZm_WTf1nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> <slrn10anl5r.ouk6.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> <108hf2o$3bl64$8@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

Followups directed to: alt.folklore.computers

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On 25/08/2025 04:12, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> The academics building the Internet did not participate in this process,
>> but the engineers doing the work went and swapped ideas, and once they
>> had working code, published open standards before patents could be
>> filed. We all know how this outcompeted the ITU and IEEE standards.

On 2025-08-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Indeed we did, Interop and all that lark 'My telnet client wont talk to 
> your telnet server, why is that? let's put a packet monitor on and see'
>
> 'Oh, well that's not illegal, but my also not illegal code barfs on it. 
> Let's think of the simplest standard addition that we can both adhere to 
> to get stuff working'
>
> Fun days.

For a few years in the early 1990s, I went to the IETF meetings. Very
busy events, with 8-12 tracks of working group meetings. When they got
to 2000 participants, it became really unwieldy. The best times were the
late night sessions in the Hyatt atriums, when the NSA guys and the NASA
guys were playing Global Thermonuclear War surrounded by a large group
watching.

In then there were the PPP plugfests. For years, I kept a T-shirt that
said "I can PPP". And someone from PacBell pointed out the woman who was
the real life inspiration for "Alice" in Dilbert.

Some of the people were truly amazing. Some weird shit was happening
behind the scenes. A guy in Finland built an anonymous remailer
(double-blind). Many government agencies did not like it, but could not
persuade the Finns to stop it. Eventually Milo told the network people
at Helsinki University, that if they did not get him out, Finland would
disappear from the Internet. 24 hours later that particular problem
was gone - permanently.

-- 
Lars P

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Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-21 17:55 -0400
  Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 00:43 +0200
    Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-21 22:40 -0400
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 04:30 +0000
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 03:30 -0400
        Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 12:23 +0200
          Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 09:59 -0400
            Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 20:50 +0200
              Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 00:34 -0400
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:05 +0200
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-24 19:19 +0000
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:20 +0200
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 21:32 +0000
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:44 +0200
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-25 02:13 -0400
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:44 +0100
          Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 18:55 +0000
            Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:59 +0200
              Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:05 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 23:21 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:34 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-23 01:28 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 04:13 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 11:39 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 03:15 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 19:06 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 20:12 +0100
              Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 04:07 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 19:04 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 20:11 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 04:05 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 04:20 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:28 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:27 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:14 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 16:59 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-24 19:19 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-23 21:15 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 04:16 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:19 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 19:19 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:17 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 19:21 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:24 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-25 17:53 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:29 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:42 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-25 13:36 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 13:06 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-25 14:34 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 03:51 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 10:36 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 06:11 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-26 08:29 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 19:39 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-08-27 16:53 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-27 12:52 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-27 22:02 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-27 21:31 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 04:15 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-28 10:36 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 06:24 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-28 12:26 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 04:11 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-28 09:44 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-28 18:03 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-28 18:10 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-28 12:12 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-29 10:52 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-28 21:44 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-29 03:32 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-29 11:12 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-29 17:43 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-29 19:16 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-29 22:50 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-30 03:11 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-27 21:29 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-27 20:40 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-27 14:56 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-28 02:30 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 03:45 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-26 04:23 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 10:34 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 06:07 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:26 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 21:51 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:27 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:23 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 21:48 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:21 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:12 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 17:07 +0100
          Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-22 23:29 -0700
            Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 21:53 +0000
              Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:24 +0100
        Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 11:26 +0100
          Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 10:00 -0400
            Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 19:41 +0100
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 12:02 +0200
        Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-23 21:21 +0000
          Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:23 +0100
            Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:37 +0200
          Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:18 +0200
            Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 16:58 +0100
              Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:37 +0200
    Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 11:22 +0100
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-08-22 10:47 +0000
        Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 19:39 +0100
        Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 19:23 +0000
          Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 01:38 -0400
            Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-23 18:02 +0000
              Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 03:49 -0400
                Re: The "Standards" Game Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-25 03:12 +0000
                Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:48 +0100
                Present at the Creation (Re: The "Standards" Game) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-25 13:03 +0000
  Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-21 22:17 -0700

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