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Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE]

From "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc, alt.comp.os.windows-11, alt.defense
Subject Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE]
Date 2025-08-24 23:29 +0200
Message-ID <5rcsnlxki6.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References (17 earlier) <db2nnlx7rf.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <CBSdndEZf8hO6zT1nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> <mguhl0FjqjdU1@mid.individual.net> <slrn10akbrh.1aqg.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> <108eosa$2n9v5$13@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On 2025-08-24 12:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 23/08/2025 22:15, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 04:07:36 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>     Hypersonics + AI drones ... the likely, NEAR, maybe immediate, 
>>>> future
>>>>     of "defense". Bombers, tanks, subs,
>>>>     ICBMs, carriers - just forget it ...  all Yesterday's Solutions.
>>
>> On 2025-08-23, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/us-navy-drone-efforts-arent- 
>>> going-
>>> well-neither-are-chinas-ps-082225
>>>
>>> Maybe...
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zClEHMU8W_4
>>>
>>> The Thresher incident might have been swept under the carpet but there
>>> were a number of civilian ride-alongs from the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard
>>> that had worked on the project and were being rewarded.
>>>
>>> Christa McAuliffe was also a New Hampshire teacher who was a ride- 
>>> along on
>>> the Challenger. Somehow New Hampshire is suspicious of the government
>>> bearing gifts. Or at least it was.
>>>
>>> Maybe someday it will be a War of the Drones but ultimately it will be
>>> boots on the ground as it has been for millennia.
>>
>> What I see in the Ukraine reports is that
>> - tanks do not to well to take and hold urban and suburban areas
>>    because civialian/reserve/guerillas have agility
> 
> Tanks do not do well at all. A drone can easily take out a tank - 
> especially a Soviet era tank
> 
>> - tanks do well in open farmland,
> 
> Not if its littered with mines. Or if there is any kind of anti tank 
> weaponry on the other side. Hand held anti-tank munitions, drones, 
> mines...the Ukrainians do better with the Bradleys  - fast manoeuvrable 
> and with care the cannon can disable a tanks eyes and ears...and 
> infantry can be deployed.
> 
>>    but if forces are close to evenly
>>    matched, the game shifts to who has or can ret (by resupply) the most
>>    ammunition
> And that is why Ukraine is winning. They don't have the men on the 
> ground but the quantity or long range fires they  now have is 
> dismantling Russia refinery by railway by bridge by ammunition factory.
> 
> Water, gasoline, electricity - these are now all very scarce indeed, 
> Inflation is rampant and bank accounts are closed.
> 
>> - smart and well-trained boots on the ground of their homeland can
>>    inflict heavy losses on poorly trained invaders
> 
> That is the equation. Let Russia come, and take 5:1 casualties in 
> exchange fir a few villages that have been shelled to ruins already, 
> while spending all the time sniping away with long range drones and 
> missiles.
> Ukraine isn't winning ground, but that's not where the war is. It's 
> winning the battle of the supply lines.

The problem is Trump.

...

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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Thread

Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-21 17:55 -0400
  Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 00:43 +0200
    Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-21 22:40 -0400
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 04:30 +0000
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 03:30 -0400
        Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 12:23 +0200
          Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 09:59 -0400
            Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 20:50 +0200
              Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 00:34 -0400
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:05 +0200
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-24 19:19 +0000
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:20 +0200
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 21:32 +0000
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:44 +0200
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-25 02:13 -0400
                Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:44 +0100
          Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 18:55 +0000
            Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:59 +0200
              Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:05 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 23:21 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:34 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-23 01:28 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 04:13 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 11:39 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 03:15 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 19:06 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 20:12 +0100
              Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 04:07 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 19:04 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 20:11 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 04:05 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 04:20 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:28 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:27 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:14 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 16:59 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-24 19:19 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-23 21:15 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 04:16 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:19 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 19:19 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:17 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 19:21 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:24 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-25 17:53 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:29 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:42 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-25 13:36 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 13:06 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-25 14:34 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 03:51 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 10:36 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 06:11 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-26 08:29 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 19:39 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-08-27 16:53 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-27 12:52 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-27 22:02 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-27 21:31 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 04:15 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-28 10:36 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 06:24 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-28 12:26 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 04:11 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-28 09:44 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-28 18:03 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-28 18:10 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-28 12:12 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-29 10:52 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-28 21:44 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-29 03:32 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-29 11:12 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-29 17:43 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-29 19:16 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-29 22:50 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-27 21:29 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-27 20:40 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-27 14:56 -0700
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-28 02:30 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 03:45 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-26 04:23 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 10:34 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 06:07 -0400
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:26 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 21:51 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:27 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:23 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 21:48 +0100
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:21 +0000
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:12 +0200
                Re: Submarines [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 17:07 +0100
          Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-22 23:29 -0700
            Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 21:53 +0000
              Re: Floppies [Was: Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:24 +0100
        Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 11:26 +0100
          Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 10:00 -0400
            Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 19:41 +0100
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 12:02 +0200
        Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-23 21:21 +0000
          Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:23 +0100
            Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:37 +0200
          Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:18 +0200
            Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 16:58 +0100
              Re: OS Support for old, cheap hardware ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:37 +0200
    Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 11:22 +0100
      Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-08-22 10:47 +0000
        Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 19:39 +0100
        Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 19:23 +0000
          Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 01:38 -0400
            Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-23 18:02 +0000
              Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 03:49 -0400
                Re: The "Standards" Game Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-25 03:12 +0000
                Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:48 +0100
                Present at the Creation (Re: The "Standards" Game) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-25 13:03 +0000
  Re: Microsoft Is Abandoning Windows 11 SE Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-21 22:17 -0700

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