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Re: Recent history of vi

From Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Recent history of vi
Date 2025-12-04 07:00 +0000
Organization Some absurd concept
Message-ID <eli$2512040139@qaz.wtf> (permalink)
References <CtydnVqzjrtfd5P0nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> <10ga6r1$7ph$1@news.misty.com> <slrn10ik3r5.2dppt.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> <10gpatq$jpt$3@news.misty.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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In comp.os.linux.misc, Johnny Billquist  <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
> I know that Unicode is here to stay. Said as much before. But it has 
> introduced a whole range of problems that people tend to pretend don't 
> exist. The most immediate one coming to my mind are all kind of scammers 
> creating fake domains to phish stuff. Using known, trusted company 
> names, but letters replaced by things that look visually equivalent, but 
> actually are other characters, and then through those domains fool 
> people to give information, such as passwords, account numbers, money, 
> and god knows what else.

As opposed to scammers posting as J0HNNY BILLQUIST, or Johnny Bi11quist,
or JOHNNY BILLQUlST in ordinary ASCII. More alphabets compound the
problem, sure, but it was always there.

> A big part of the problem is that Unicode don't even seem to have known 
> what problem is was supposed to solve. Was it about representing 
> different characters that have different meanings? Was it about 
> representing same characters but with different visual effects? Was it 
> supposed to be some kind of generic system to modify characters through 
> some clever system design?

It's pretty much never about "visual effects" although there are semantic
differences to some visually similar characters. Math is a big offender
in wanting â„€ meaning something different than Z or 𝐙. But you could argue
that Japanese style "fullwidth" ïŒș is a visual effect.

I would say the problem Unicode is trying to solve, albeit with some
inconsistency, is the communication of all written languages in a
standardized system of encoding. There are huge problems in that many
written languages have implicit presentation rules based on context. The
fullwidth Roman alphaphet, for example, is there because English letters
in Japanese text are supposed to be the same size to fit the grid of the
surrounding material.

At different stages Unicode has solved this problem in different ways.
More recently there has been a trend towards encoding things with
combining characters (backspace overstrike style in the old manual
typewriter days) and with ligatures of a sort. Flags being represented
as a pair of "regional indicator" letters, where the letters are the
same country codes used in DNS, is an example of that.

Elijah
------
"Weird AI != Weird Al" being a confusable forming some recent jokes

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Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-11-22 17:55 +0100
  Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-11-22 19:20 +0100
    Re: Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-22 21:43 +0000
      Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-23 00:23 +0100
        Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-23 02:17 +0000
          Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-23 09:42 +0000
          Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-23 14:59 +0100
            Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-23 13:09 -0800
              Re: Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-23 22:57 +0000
        Re: Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-23 02:56 +0000
        Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-11-22 20:18 -0700
        Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-11-24 01:45 +0000
          Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-23 18:06 -0800
            Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-24 02:13 +0000
            Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-11-24 02:23 +0000
              Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-11-24 04:56 +0000
    Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-11-27 19:55 +0100
      Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-11-28 22:08 +0100
        Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-12-03 13:37 +0100
          Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-03 13:56 +0100
            Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-03 13:58 +0000
              Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-03 15:40 +0100
          Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-03 07:39 -0700
            Re: Recent history of vi Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2025-12-06 16:46 +0100
          Re: Recent history of vi Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-03 14:40 +0000
          Re: Recent history of vi Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-04 07:00 +0000
            Re: Recent history of vi Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-12-05 20:52 +0000
              Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-05 15:57 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-12-08 18:40 +0000
              Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-06 12:22 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-06 19:51 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-06 15:13 -0700
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-12-06 22:28 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 01:39 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-07 06:19 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-06 22:50 -0800
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-12-07 10:52 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 18:34 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-12-07 16:58 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-07 00:35 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-07 19:48 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-12-07 00:38 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 01:31 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 11:18 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 18:52 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-12-07 19:39 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-12-07 19:44 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 20:27 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 01:46 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-08 05:53 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-07 22:25 -0800
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 08:34 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:48 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 23:43 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-07 14:31 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-07 16:31 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 18:49 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-12-07 19:12 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 19:44 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-07 12:14 -0800
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 20:26 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 03:05 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:46 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-08 16:39 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-08 16:07 -0500
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:15 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:43 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-11 02:54 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-11 08:55 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-07 14:30 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 03:12 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-07 11:52 -0800
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 20:23 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-07 22:54 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-07 14:25 -0800
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:25 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-08 16:26 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-08 12:15 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-08 16:13 -0500
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:19 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-09 00:08 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 23:58 +0000
                Greek origins of Christian scriptures [was Re: Recent history of vi] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-07 18:17 -0500
                Re: Recent history of vi Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-08 01:35 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:34 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-08 14:23 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-09 01:10 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-09 04:25 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2025-12-09 04:47 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-10 15:16 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 16:59 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-11 02:55 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-10 19:34 -0800
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 02:38 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:21 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-08 07:38 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-08 16:35 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:54 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:41 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-10 23:07 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-11 08:52 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-10 23:06 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 02:03 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:41 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 20:14 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-07 22:56 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:18 +0000
          Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-12-05 01:59 +0000
            Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-05 10:14 +0000
              Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-12-05 11:45 +0000
            Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-05 10:35 +0000
            Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-05 12:05 +0100
            Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2025-12-06 16:41 +0100
            Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-12-08 18:40 +0000
  Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-22 20:25 +0100
    Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-11-27 20:02 +0100
      Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-27 20:16 +0100
        Re: Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-27 21:18 +0000
        Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-12-03 13:38 +0100
          Re: Recent history of vi Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-04 07:15 +0000

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