Re: Recent history of vi

From	Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Re: Recent history of vi
Date	2025-12-03 13:38 +0100
Organization	MGT Consulting
Message-ID	<10gpb0a$jpt$4@news.misty.com> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <eli$2511181526@qaz.wtf> <10fspti$rfd$1@news.misty.com> <t9f9vlxbpu.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <10ga781$7ph$2@news.misty.com> <vlkmvlx1cj.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 2025-11-27 20:16, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-11-27 20:02, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>> On 2025-11-22 20:25, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2025-11-22 17:55, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>>>> On 2025-11-18 21:29, Eli the Bearded wrote:
>>>>> In comp.os.linux.misc, Johnny Billquist  <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-11-16 21:59, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>> Without UTF-8, you could not have “€” or “©” or “±” or those 
>>>>>>> curly quotes.
>>>>>> Of course you could.
>>>>>> They exist just fine in Latin-1 (hmm, maybe not the quotes...).
>>>>>
>>>>> The Latin-1 I know does not have a Euro symbol. It does have the 
>>>>> generic
>>>>> currency placeholder at 0xA5: ¤
>>>>
>>>> Yeah. Sorry. That came in 8859-15.
>>>>
>>>>> Elijah
>>>>> ------
>>>>> likes utf-8 better than iso-8859-$WHATEVER
>>>> That don't even make sense. UTF-8 is just a way to encode large 
>>>> integers in a variable sequence of 8-bit bytes.
>>>> Which of course makes it a mess to figure out how long a string 
>>>> actually is.
>>>> But I guess what you actually mean is that you like Unicode better 
>>>> than 8859-whatever.
>>>> I couldn't disagree more. Endless ways to represent the exact same 
>>>> character, and weird things like sometimes having a separate 
>>>> codepoint for units or prefixes, but sometimes using normal ASCII 
>>>> for them, and then you have sometimes different codepoints because 
>>>> of colors, but sometimes not.
>>>> It's a trainwreck, but now we're stuck with it. :(
>>>
>>> Encode large integers? No.
>>
>> Ok. Call it "encode Unicode" then if that makes you happier. And 
>> Unicode codepoints can be described as integers (in fact, they are, 
>> which is why you see U+nnnn, where nnnn is a hex value, for 
>> codepoints), and have a range of roughly 2^22.
>>
>> UTF-8 isn't defining any characters, just defining a way to represent 
>> Unicode characters using a variable number of 8-bit bytes.
> 
> And 8 bit ascii letters are also numbers representing characters. That's 
> how computers work.

Right. So both ASCII and Unicode use numbers to represent characters.
Note that UTF-8 didn't get mentioned in that sentence.

   Johnny

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Re: Recent history of vi Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-11-18 20:29 +0000
  Re: Recent history of vi Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-19 08:24 +0000
  Re: Recent history of vi Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-21 19:58 +0000
    Re: Recent history of vi Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 21:14 +0000
      ISO 8859-1, ISO 8859-15 and their names (was: Re: Recent history of vi) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-21 23:20 +0000
    Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-11-21 19:10 -0700
      Re: Recent history of vi Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-22 10:23 +0000
  Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-11-22 17:55 +0100
    Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-11-22 19:20 +0100
      Re: Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-22 21:43 +0000
        Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-23 00:23 +0100
          Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-23 02:17 +0000
            Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-23 09:42 +0000
            Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-23 14:59 +0100
              Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-23 13:09 -0800
                Re: Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-23 22:57 +0000
          Re: Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-23 02:56 +0000
          Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-11-22 20:18 -0700
          Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-11-24 01:45 +0000
            Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-23 18:06 -0800
              Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-24 02:13 +0000
              Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-11-24 02:23 +0000
                Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-11-24 04:56 +0000
      Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-11-27 19:55 +0100
        Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-11-28 22:08 +0100
          Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-12-03 13:37 +0100
            Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-03 13:56 +0100
              Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-03 13:58 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-03 15:40 +0100
            Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-03 07:39 -0700
              Re: Recent history of vi Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2025-12-06 16:46 +0100
            Re: Recent history of vi Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-03 14:40 +0000
            Re: Recent history of vi Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-04 07:00 +0000
              Re: Recent history of vi Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-12-05 20:52 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-05 15:57 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-12-08 18:40 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-06 12:22 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-06 19:51 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-06 15:13 -0700
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-12-06 22:28 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 01:39 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-07 06:19 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-06 22:50 -0800
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-12-07 10:52 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 18:34 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-12-07 16:58 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-07 00:35 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-07 19:48 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-12-07 00:38 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 01:31 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 11:18 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 18:52 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-12-07 19:39 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-12-07 19:44 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 20:27 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 01:46 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-08 05:53 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-07 22:25 -0800
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 08:34 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:48 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 23:43 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-07 14:31 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-07 16:31 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 18:49 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-12-07 19:12 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 19:44 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-07 12:14 -0800
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 20:26 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 03:05 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:46 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-08 16:39 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-08 16:07 -0500
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:15 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:43 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-07 14:30 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 03:12 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-07 11:52 -0800
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 20:23 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-07 22:54 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-07 14:25 -0800
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:25 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-08 16:26 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-08 12:15 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-08 16:13 -0500
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:19 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-09 00:08 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 23:58 +0000
                Greek origins of Christian scriptures [was Re: Recent history of vi] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-07 18:17 -0500
                Re: Recent history of vi Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-08 01:35 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:34 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-08 14:23 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-09 01:10 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-09 04:25 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2025-12-09 04:47 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-10 15:16 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 16:59 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 02:38 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:21 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-08 07:38 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-08 16:35 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:54 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:41 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-10 23:07 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-10 23:06 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 02:03 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:41 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 20:14 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-07 22:56 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:18 +0000
            Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-12-05 01:59 +0000
              Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-05 10:14 +0000
                Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-12-05 11:45 +0000
              Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-05 10:35 +0000
              Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-05 12:05 +0100
              Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2025-12-06 16:41 +0100
              Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-12-08 18:40 +0000
    Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-22 20:25 +0100
      Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-11-27 20:02 +0100
        Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-27 20:16 +0100
          Re: Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-27 21:18 +0000
          Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-12-03 13:38 +0100
            Re: Recent history of vi Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-04 07:15 +0000

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