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Groups > comp.sys.apple2.programmer > #2066

Re: telnetd for GNO?

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Jeff Blakeney wrote:
> I tried to keep my reply short and concise and failed miserably.  :)

No worries, Usenet was made for talking! :-)

> 
>  You could create a replacement for Marinetti but it would 
> get confusing if you had two tool sets that had the same tool set number.

True, but how else could a drop-in replacement work with existing
applications?


> 
> I've not run into any problems using Marinetti but then, applications 
> are limited and I haven't used my IIgs online for a while.

Ewen Wannop and I found a bug about 2 or 3 years ago in Marinetti while
testing and debugging one of his applications.

There's another bug that I don't think has been fixed-- if you use the web
server NDA there's a bug that will cause a system crash.

> 
> The speed almost certainly won't improve because the original Uthernet 
> pretty much maxed out the IIgs bus speed.  10 megabits per second is 
> pretty darn close to 1 megabyte per second which is the Apple II's bus 
> speed limit.  The Uthernet II's 100 megabit connection is a bit of a 
> waste unless we can come up with a way to bypass the Apple II's bus. 
> Then the problem would become one of processor speed.

I agree there, we'd need DMA to really get things going in terms of
transfer...
> 
> However, I agree that the co-processing of checksums and moving of data 
> over the network would free up time for the IIgs processor.  I just 
> don't think the that is worth the trade off of only supporting one piece 
> of network connection hardware.

… but there's more to it than just checksumming. Literally thousands of
instructions that would be executed on the 65C816 are now bypassed because
you're only copying your data payload to the W5100 for send, or you're
copying bytes out of the W5100 for receive.

In other words, all kinds of logic, not just checksumming, is being
offloaded from the IIgs to the W5100. There's no way I could believe that
*won't* result in a speedup.


> 
> Andrew reminded me of the MacIP link layer and also mentioned the 
> different link layers for emulators.  There are lots of link layers and 
> supported hardware connections so there is a good chance people will be 
> using connections other than an Uthernet II.  For instance, now that I 
> have an Uthernet II, my original Uthernet will be going into another 
> IIgs and that machine will need to use Marinetti as there is no on board 
> TCP/IP stack for that card.

Those people can continue using Marinetti.

But here's the thing. Glenn Jones told me a few months ago that more people,
during the Uthernet II pre-order period last fall, bought an Uthernet II
than ever bought the original Uthernet in the 9 years that it was produced.

In short: there are several hundred Uthernet II cards out in the hands of
Apple II users, there are more Uthernet II cards than there are original
Uthernets, and with orders open again (see
http://a2retrosystems.com/order.htm/ ) that installed base will only
continue to increase.


> 
> As Kelvin pointed out, a web server can use up four connections quite 
> quickly.
> 
> The other problem is if you have multiple things going on at once.  Some 
> of these programs are desk accessories and new stuff probably will be as 
> well.  You could conceivably have IRC, telnet, FTP, E-mail and a web 
> browser all open at the same time.  As you pointed out, FTP can use two 
> connections and even an email program could have both a POP3 and an SMTP 
> connection open simultaneously.  An e-mail client that is set up to 
> support multiple e-mail address could also open all the POP3 connections 
> at the same time as well.

Point taken. In these situations, people can continue using Marinetti.


> 
> Please don't let my views deter you from working on your own Uthernet II 
> library.

I'm going to work on one for the 6502 at least. James Brooks indicated to me
that he'd like to write some code for the 65c816. I'm still learning 65c816
assembly, so I can't really be effective at it, yet.


-- 
]DF$
The Marina IP stack for Apple II--
http://marina.a2hq.com/

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telnetd for GNO? stlhood <stlhood@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 14:00 -0800
  Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-04 16:27 +0000
    Re: telnetd for GNO? stlhood <stlhood@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 10:50 -0800
      Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-04 18:57 +0000
        Re: telnetd for GNO? Jeff Blakeney <CUTjeffrey_blakeney@yahoo.ca> - 2016-01-04 18:56 -0500
          Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-05 20:44 +0000
            Re: telnetd for GNO? andrew.roughan@writeme.com - 2016-01-06 03:21 -0800
              Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-07 22:51 +0000
            Re: telnetd for GNO? Kelvin Sherlock <email@domain.com> - 2016-01-06 12:45 -0500
            Re: telnetd for GNO? Jeff Blakeney <CUTjeffrey_blakeney@yahoo.ca> - 2016-01-06 17:12 -0500
              Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-07 23:05 +0000
                Re: telnetd for GNO? "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> - 2016-01-07 21:43 -0500
                Re: telnetd for GNO? andrew.roughan@writeme.com - 2016-01-09 00:58 -0800
                Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-09 21:30 +0000
  Re: telnetd for GNO? Stephen Heumann <stephen.heumann@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 18:45 -0600
    Re: telnetd for GNO? stlhood <stlhood@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 20:40 -0800
      Re: telnetd for GNO? Stephen Heumann <stephen.heumann@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 12:30 -0600
        Re: telnetd for GNO? stlhood <stlhood@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 21:28 -0800
          Re: telnetd for GNO? Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 13:03 -0500
            Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-11 18:41 +0000
              Re: telnetd for GNO? Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 19:05 -0500
                Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-12 18:56 +0000
    Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-05 20:56 +0000
      Re: telnetd for GNO? stlhood <stlhood@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 00:18 -0800

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