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Re: telnetd for GNO?

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I tried to keep my reply short and concise and failed miserably.  :)

On 05/01/2016 3:44 PM, D Finnigan wrote:
> Yes, I agree. It would be incredibly shortsighted not to write the library
> as a drop-in replacement for the Marinetti tool.
>
> The measure of success is that you delete Marinetti from your system,
> install this new library, and you can use Spectrum Internet Suite and SAFE2
> as if nothing had changed.

As Andrew pointed out, you could create an Uthernet II link layer that 
uses the on board TCP/IP stack but it would require some updates to 
Marinetti.  You could create a replacement for Marinetti but it would 
get confusing if you had two tool sets that had the same tool set number.

> It makes tons of sense as Marinetti is nearly 20 years old, and in that time
> hasn't been significantly updated to account for new and revised RFCs since
> the late 1990s.
>
> Furthermore, it's an incomplete implementation of some of the protocols,
> such as IP. Did you know that Marinetti has no method for routing IP
> datagrams to either a host on the local link or to a gateway? That's because
> when Richard Bennett wrote the original thing in the 1990s, he assumed a
> single connection at the other end of the IIgs. It means that link layers
> such as the LanceGS (the first one) have had to write their own IP routing
> algorithm, as well as their own ARP implementation and DHCP client too.
>
> Furthermore, writing a lightweight interface for the Uthernet II's TCP/IP
> stack on the W5100 will mean less RAM needed on the IIgs. It will probably
> also be much faster, since the IP, UDP, TCP, and ICMP checksums will all be
> computed in the W5100 hardware and not on the IIgs.

I've not run into any problems using Marinetti but then, applications 
are limited and I haven't used my IIgs online for a while.

My ROM 3 machine usually has 5.125 MB of RAM so I'm not too worried 
about what Marinetti might be using.  I've had a ROM 01 with 8 MB of 
expansion RAM in it as well.

The speed almost certainly won't improve because the original Uthernet 
pretty much maxed out the IIgs bus speed.  10 megabits per second is 
pretty darn close to 1 megabyte per second which is the Apple II's bus 
speed limit.  The Uthernet II's 100 megabit connection is a bit of a 
waste unless we can come up with a way to bypass the Apple II's bus. 
Then the problem would become one of processor speed.

However, I agree that the co-processing of checksums and moving of data 
over the network would free up time for the IIgs processor.  I just 
don't think the that is worth the trade off of only supporting one piece 
of network connection hardware.

> Who is using other connection methods besides the Uthernet or Uthernet II?
>
> Raise your hands, people.
>
> People with their hands raised can continue using Marinetti. But the
> hundreds of people who now own an Uthernet II will be glad to use a drop-in
> replacement for Marinetti that uses far less RAM and has fewer bugs and has
> better RFC compliance.

Andrew reminded me of the MacIP link layer and also mentioned the 
different link layers for emulators.  There are lots of link layers and 
supported hardware connections so there is a good chance people will be 
using connections other than an Uthernet II.  For instance, now that I 
have an Uthernet II, my original Uthernet will be going into another 
IIgs and that machine will need to use Marinetti as there is no on board 
TCP/IP stack for that card.

> Yes, 4 sockets is the maximum.
>
> Can you think of any applications on the IIgs that use more than 4
> connections? I can't. I know FTP clients use two connections. What else is
> there?

As Kelvin pointed out, a web server can use up four connections quite 
quickly.

The other problem is if you have multiple things going on at once.  Some 
of these programs are desk accessories and new stuff probably will be as 
well.  You could conceivably have IRC, telnet, FTP, E-mail and a web 
browser all open at the same time.  As you pointed out, FTP can use two 
connections and even an email program could have both a POP3 and an SMTP 
connection open simultaneously.  An e-mail client that is set up to 
support multiple e-mail address could also open all the POP3 connections 
at the same time as well.

One of the projects I have on my list is a file sharing system (although 
SAMBA compatibility is probably out of the question) which would be 
running all the time and could end up using multiple connections as well.

Please don't let my views deter you from working on your own Uthernet II 
library.  I might even find a use for it if it turns out to be way 
better than Marinetti.  :)

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telnetd for GNO? stlhood <stlhood@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 14:00 -0800
  Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-04 16:27 +0000
    Re: telnetd for GNO? stlhood <stlhood@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 10:50 -0800
      Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-04 18:57 +0000
        Re: telnetd for GNO? Jeff Blakeney <CUTjeffrey_blakeney@yahoo.ca> - 2016-01-04 18:56 -0500
          Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-05 20:44 +0000
            Re: telnetd for GNO? andrew.roughan@writeme.com - 2016-01-06 03:21 -0800
              Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-07 22:51 +0000
            Re: telnetd for GNO? Kelvin Sherlock <email@domain.com> - 2016-01-06 12:45 -0500
            Re: telnetd for GNO? Jeff Blakeney <CUTjeffrey_blakeney@yahoo.ca> - 2016-01-06 17:12 -0500
              Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-07 23:05 +0000
                Re: telnetd for GNO? "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> - 2016-01-07 21:43 -0500
                Re: telnetd for GNO? andrew.roughan@writeme.com - 2016-01-09 00:58 -0800
                Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-09 21:30 +0000
  Re: telnetd for GNO? Stephen Heumann <stephen.heumann@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 18:45 -0600
    Re: telnetd for GNO? stlhood <stlhood@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 20:40 -0800
      Re: telnetd for GNO? Stephen Heumann <stephen.heumann@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 12:30 -0600
        Re: telnetd for GNO? stlhood <stlhood@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 21:28 -0800
          Re: telnetd for GNO? Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 13:03 -0500
            Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-11 18:41 +0000
              Re: telnetd for GNO? Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 19:05 -0500
                Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-12 18:56 +0000
    Re: telnetd for GNO? D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2016-01-05 20:56 +0000
      Re: telnetd for GNO? stlhood <stlhood@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 00:18 -0800

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