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Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi

From John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi
Date 2025-12-05 01:59 +0000
Organization Taughannock Networks
Message-ID <10gte9a$2cpi$1@gal.iecc.com> (permalink)
References <CtydnVqzjrtfd5P0nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> <10ga6r1$7ph$1@news.misty.com> <slrn10ik3r5.2dppt.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> <10gpatq$jpt$3@news.misty.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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According to Johnny Billquist  <bqt@softjar.se>:
>A big part of the problem is that Unicode don't even seem to have known 
>what problem is was supposed to solve. Was it about representing 
>different characters that have different meanings? Was it about 
>representing same characters but with different visual effects? Was it 
>supposed to be some kind of generic system to modify characters through 
>some clever system design?

Nope.

Unicode is a typesetting language. Its goal is to represent every written
language that people use, and it does that quite well. When you're setting type,
the goal is to make the result look correct, and you do not care how you do
that. For example, I am old enough to remember manual typewriters that only had
the digits 2 through 9, because you used lower case "l" and capital "O" for digits
1 and O.  That was fine, on those typewriters they looked the same.

The problem is that we want to represent identifiers in a unique way, which both
means that there is only one way to represent a particular identifier, and that
there aren't two representations that look the same.  It shouldn't be surprising
that Unicode doesn't do either of those, so we have been coming up with kludges
for the past decade to try and fake it.

The reason we use Unicode is that while it sucks for identifiers, all of the
alternatives are even worse.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-11-22 17:55 +0100
  Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-11-22 19:20 +0100
    Re: Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-22 21:43 +0000
      Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-23 00:23 +0100
        Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-23 02:17 +0000
          Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-23 09:42 +0000
          Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-23 14:59 +0100
            Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-23 13:09 -0800
              Re: Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-23 22:57 +0000
        Re: Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-23 02:56 +0000
        Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-11-22 20:18 -0700
        Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-11-24 01:45 +0000
          Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-23 18:06 -0800
            Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-24 02:13 +0000
            Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-11-24 02:23 +0000
              Re: typing in the mysterious East, Recent history of vi ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-11-24 04:56 +0000
    Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-11-27 19:55 +0100
      Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-11-28 22:08 +0100
        Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-12-03 13:37 +0100
          Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-03 13:56 +0100
            Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-03 13:58 +0000
              Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-03 15:40 +0100
          Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-03 07:39 -0700
            Re: Recent history of vi Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2025-12-06 16:46 +0100
          Re: Recent history of vi Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-03 14:40 +0000
          Re: Recent history of vi Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-04 07:00 +0000
            Re: Recent history of vi Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-12-05 20:52 +0000
              Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-05 15:57 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-12-08 18:40 +0000
              Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-06 12:22 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-06 19:51 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-06 15:13 -0700
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-12-06 22:28 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 01:39 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-07 06:19 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-06 22:50 -0800
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-12-07 10:52 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 18:34 +0000
                Re: polyglot programming, Recent history of vi Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-12-07 16:58 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-07 00:35 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-07 19:48 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-12-07 00:38 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 01:31 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 11:18 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 18:52 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-12-07 19:39 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-12-07 19:44 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 20:27 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 01:46 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-08 05:53 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-07 22:25 -0800
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 08:34 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:48 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 23:43 +0000
                Re: more polyglot programming, was Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-07 14:31 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-07 16:31 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 18:49 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-12-07 19:12 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-07 19:44 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-07 12:14 -0800
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 20:26 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 03:05 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:46 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-08 16:39 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-08 16:07 -0500
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:15 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:43 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-11 02:54 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-11 08:55 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-07 14:30 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 03:12 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-07 11:52 -0800
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 20:23 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-07 22:54 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-07 14:25 -0800
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:25 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-08 16:26 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-08 12:15 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-08 16:13 -0500
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:19 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-09 00:08 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 23:58 +0000
                Greek origins of Christian scriptures [was Re: Recent history of vi] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-07 18:17 -0500
                Re: Recent history of vi Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-08 01:35 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:34 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-08 14:23 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-09 01:10 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-09 04:25 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2025-12-09 04:47 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-10 15:16 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 16:59 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-11 02:55 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-10 19:34 -0800
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 02:38 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:21 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-12-08 07:38 -0700
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-08 16:35 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:54 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-10 13:41 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-10 23:07 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-11 08:52 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-10 23:06 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-08 02:03 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:41 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-07 20:14 +0000
                Re: Recent history of vi Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-12-07 22:56 +0100
                Re: Recent history of vi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-08 08:18 +0000
          Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-12-05 01:59 +0000
            Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-05 10:14 +0000
              Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-12-05 11:45 +0000
            Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-05 10:35 +0000
            Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-05 12:05 +0100
            Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2025-12-06 16:41 +0100
            Re: Unicode, not Recent history of vi candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-12-08 18:40 +0000
  Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-22 20:25 +0100
    Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-11-27 20:02 +0100
      Re: Recent history of vi "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-27 20:16 +0100
        Re: Recent history of vi Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-27 21:18 +0000
        Re: Recent history of vi Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-12-03 13:38 +0100
          Re: Recent history of vi Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-04 07:15 +0000

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