Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #581818

Re: Annotated version of SRT

From	Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date	2022-04-03 15:42 -0400
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<t2cta9$va$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(10 earlier) <jakuinFdpk5U1@mid.individual.net> <5b55ae6d-ce63-43f4-82f3-ebbdde68022cn@googlegroups.com> <janhdiFsvsnU1@mid.individual.net> <b11d446a-ede8-41a7-bb31-c435e9acc4fen@googlegroups.com> <jasrs0FtnirU1@mid.individual.net>

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On 4/3/2022 2:07 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 01.04.2022 um 09:39 schrieb JanPB:
>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 10:37:59 PM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am 31.03.2022 um 09:14 schrieb JanPB:
>>>> On Wednesday, March 30, 2022 at 11:04:11 PM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>> Am 30.03.2022 um 20:08 schrieb JanPB:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But I have not dealt with these equations, because I disliked 
>>>>>>>>>>> Einstein's
>>>>>>>>>>> subtraction of magnetic field strength from electric field 
>>>>>>>>>>> strength, anyhow.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's nothing peculiar to Einstein, it's the Gaussian system of 
>>>>>>>>>> units.
>>>>>>>>> I have actually problems with subtracting electric field 
>>>>>>>>> strength from
>>>>>>>>> magnetic field strength.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is like subtracting 1 V from 1 A.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To me this doesn't make any sense at all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's your problem then. If you want to resolve this, you must
>>>>>>>> learn how various systems of units work.
>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the cgs system electric field strength and magnetic field 
>>>>>>> strength
>>>>>>> have the same unit of force, because the fields were equated with 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> process of measuring them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These measuring devices contained deformable springs, which 
>>>>>>> measure a force.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Such springs are contained in many analog measuring devices, like a
>>>>>>> pressure gauge, a cithen balance or a volt-meter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All of them measure something by a reference to a deformable spring.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But you cannot subtract Volts from psi, just because both were 
>>>>>>> measured
>>>>>>> with a deformable spring.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To do so would require a physical justification, which was entirely
>>>>>>> missing in Einstein's text.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, this is how units of systems work (Gaussian, in this case).
>>>>> I have given you already the example, that many anolg measuring 
>>>>> devices
>>>>> work with deformable springs, which emasure ultimatively a force.
>>>>>
>>>>> But still you must not add or subtract different units,
>>>>
>>>> They are not different units in the Gaussian system.
>>>>
>>>>> like pressure
>>>>> and weigth,
>>>>
>>>> N/A. Learn about X if you want to discuss X (esp. if you want to
>>>> criticise X).
>>>>
>>>>> for instance, even if a pressure gauge and a kitchen scale
>>>>> work with a spring.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is fantastically stupid nonsese to even advocate such use of 
>>>>> values.
>>>>
>>>> No. You simply don't understand how this works. Some people, when
>>>> they don't understand something, tend to blame everyone but themselves
>>>> for this. I cannot fix this problem for you.
>>> I understand, that magnetic field and electric field have different
>>> effects, hence are different things, even if related.
>>>
>>> So: I cannot subtract 1 amp from 1 Volt, because that does not make much
>>> more sense then subtraction weigth from pressure.
>>
>> You don't subtract 1 A from 1 V.
> 
> 
> Electric field strength (commonly called 'E') was subtracted from 
> magnetic field strength (commonly called 'H') by Einstein.
> 
> E has [V/m] as units and H has [A/m].
> 
> To subtract E from H would mean [A/m - V/m] =[(A - V)/m].
> 
> (Einstein used only the X-components called 'N' and 'Y', which should 
> have similar units, nevertheless. The used phrase 'force' instead of 
> 'field strength' was actually wrong.)
> 
> Now ... ..(N - v/c*Y)... contains an illegal operation, because it 
> requires to subtract Volts from Amps. (sorry: I wrote it the other way 
> round, but that does not matter, because subtraction is also a form of 
> addition).
> 
> I have complained about this operation and you are still not able to 
> justify that by other means then by referencing to the same units used 
> in the cgs system.

The Gaussian/CGS system uses different definitions for electric and 
magnetic fields.  Both are defined as force per unit charge.

The magnetic field also needs a speed/velocity component, but CGS uses a 
_ratio_ of v/c which is unitless.  Since both the magnetic and electric 
fields have the same units, they can be added or subtracted from each other.

CGS was much more popular during Einstein's time.  Many people these 
days aren't familiar with it.

Note that under MKS, the electric field is _also_ defined as a force per 
unit charge.  You can rearrange its units (volts/meter) and get 
(newtons/coulomb), which is obviously a force/unit charge.
> 
> My argument, that this would justify other operations, which are 
> regarded as illegal, like subtraction pressure from weight, hence must 
> be illegal itself, you were unable to disprove.

No, in CGS pressure and weight don't have the same units so that is not 
possible.
> 
> So in effect you are unable to defend Einstein's position.
> 
It's not "Einstein's position", the Gaussian system was the customary 
units of the time.

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Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-30 09:13 +0200
  Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-30 16:46 +0200
    Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-30 11:37 -0700
    Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-31 08:16 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT Vance Rera <rerv@trscnat.ag> - 2022-04-03 20:38 +0000
  Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-03-30 11:08 -0700
    Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-31 08:04 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-03-31 00:14 -0700
        Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-31 00:26 -0700
          Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-01 07:05 +0200
            Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-01 00:25 -0700
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-02 08:18 +0200
        Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-01 07:37 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-01 00:39 -0700
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-02 08:38 +0200
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Richie Cruze <rcru@bstntap.jp> - 2022-04-02 18:17 +0000
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-02 14:57 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Richie Cruze <rcru@bstntap.jp> - 2022-04-02 19:07 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-02 15:22 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Richie Cruze <rcru@bstntap.jp> - 2022-04-02 19:33 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-02 12:30 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Richie Cruze <rcru@bstntap.jp> - 2022-04-02 19:53 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 00:38 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Elmer Joss <josl@nntdca.mx> - 2022-04-03 08:50 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 13:07 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Vance Rera <rerv@trscnat.ag> - 2022-04-03 20:24 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 15:34 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Vance Rera <rerv@trscnat.ag> - 2022-04-04 00:25 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 19:33 -0700
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test Hagan Koon <koh@nisnaha.mx> - 2022-04-04 12:30 +0000
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 12:23 -0700
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test Lamar Main <lana@rtcpans.in> - 2022-04-04 21:04 +0000
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 17:41 -0700
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-04 21:09 -0400
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-04-05 00:17 -0500
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 23:03 -0700
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-05 02:10 -0400
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test Lamar Main <lana@rtcpans.in> - 2022-04-05 09:35 +0000
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-05 03:13 -0700
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test Lamar Main <lana@rtcpans.in> - 2022-04-05 09:33 +0000
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 16:00 -0700
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test Lamar Main <lana@rtcpans.in> - 2022-04-05 09:54 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-05 08:09 +0200
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-03 08:07 +0200
              Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 00:43 -0700
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 12:38 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-04 07:14 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 01:44 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-05 08:16 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 13:55 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-05 08:25 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-05 02:46 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-06 07:40 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-05 14:56 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-06 07:53 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-06 13:50 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-06 07:01 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-06 14:18 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-06 08:45 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-07 07:08 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 13:25 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 07:53 +0200
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-03 15:42 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-04 07:20 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-04 13:10 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 13:55 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-05 08:35 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-05 10:28 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-05 03:15 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-06 08:01 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-05 14:56 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-05 14:03 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-05 18:06 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-07 07:48 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 13:25 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 07:59 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Mitch Yamaguchi <sdvw@aozrihai.wg> - 2022-04-07 19:23 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 14:10 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 07:56 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-05 13:58 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-06 08:22 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-07 07:45 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 01:20 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 08:14 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 23:47 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 01:06 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 08:40 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 23:56 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 20:50 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-08 19:05 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-09 08:08 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-08 23:51 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-09 13:02 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-09 07:48 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-04-09 14:36 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-09 06:18 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Coke Hishikawa <uhva@blseummh.nm> - 2022-04-09 11:33 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-04 21:02 -0400
              Re: Annotated version of SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-04-03 22:31 +0200
              Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-04 13:10 +0200

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