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Re: Annotated version of SRT

From Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date 2022-04-08 20:50 +0200
Message-ID <jbbeghFo9obU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (18 earlier) <t2i00b$e25$1@gioia.aioe.org> <jb4ptjFffd0U1@mid.individual.net> <03a03595-b620-438c-939a-b1efadaa0d79n@googlegroups.com> <jba3mtFg7iqU1@mid.individual.net> <6764db6a-256b-46c2-83ca-ab2d74811565n@googlegroups.com>

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Am 08.04.2022 um 08:56 schrieb JanPB:

>>> Both pages refer to components of the relevant fields (electric or magnetic).
>> Sure, but I was talking about components of vectors.
>>
>> Now a field is something from the real world, while vectors belong to
>> the mathematical description of that phenomenon.
>
> No. Field is a mathematical concept. It's based on the continuum
> concept which we don't even know exists in nature.

In physics 'field' means the distribution of something in space.

It an electric field was meant, we mean something likee the effect of a 
charged probe upon the environment and how this is distributed in space.


>> A vector is actually a n-tuple, which combines a number of values into
>> one piece.
>
> It's an n-tuple with certain transformation properties.
>
>> the main features of a vector are: direction and 'length'.
>> Vectors maintain direction and strength, but can be moved around.
>>
>> But what entries do vectors have?
>>
>> We could think about different things, that could be the entries: like
>> numbers, scalar physical quantities with a unit or other vectors.
>>
>> But how shall we interpret the entries of vectors in Einstein's text?
>
> It's obvious to a competent reader.
>
>> Usually the author should say, how he likes his symbols to be
>> understood.
>
> It's completely specified in the paper.
>
>> But since Einstein did not define his variables,
>
> He did.

Sure. Actually he did that occasionally.

But he used the symbol 'Y' for different purposes and in case of the 
electric field strength vectors he left the question open, how that 'Y' 
should be interpreted.

Meant was the y-component of the field strength vector at point (x,y, z).

But what he meant was most likely also a vector, but with only one 
entry: something like (0, Y, 0).

The symbol 'Y' could have other meanings, too:

for instance the y-axis of the stationary system K had the name 'Y', too.

(0, Y, 0) is a symbolic representation in form of a n-tupel of the field 
strength at a certain point inspace.

The entries are numbers without units. But that can hardly be meant, 
because a number is not a physical quantity.

So: what was meant instead?

Einstein left the question to the reader, who was therefore forced to 
imagine, what Einstein had in mind.

I regarded this as a very nasty habit, because the author has to tell 
the reader, what he wants to say


...

>
>> E.g. the symbol 'A' was used for eight different purposes.
>
> Again, all nonsense - N/A.

This is in fact true.

Einstein used the tall letter 'A' for:

name of a point
name of one end of a moving rod
index of a time measure in t_A
sign at set of equations
as symbol for area
as variable, which meant 'amplitude'
in 'electric power of deflexion A_e' (whatever that is)
in 'magnetic power of deflexion A_m'

>
>> (that is actually so nasty, that this alone would be sufficant to
>> dismiss the entire paper.)
>
> Again, total nonsense - N/A. Why are you wasting your time
> on posting complete nonsense?

It is actually not nonsense.

I would regard his naming system as total crap.

It is actually so bad, that also his naming conventions alone were 
enough for me to reject that paper.

Besides of that crapping system of naming things, he kept the actual 
meanings hidden and left it to the reader, to find out, what he meant.


>> To make matters worse, he also defined something, but actually used
>> other symbols.
>

Sure he did!

quote from the footnote on page 8:

"Editor’s note:  In Einstein’s original  paper, the symbols (Ξ, H, Z) 
for the co-ordinates of the moving system k were introduced without 
explicitly defining them. In the 1923 English translation, (X, Y, Z) were 
used, creating an ambiguity between X co-ordinates in the fixed system K 
and the parallel axis in moving system k. "

But he used the names Ξ, H, Z only here and on page 12. At all other 
instances he used X, y and Z.

Besides of this problem we can see here yet another problem:

some Greek letters look similar to some Latin letters, which were also 
in use, but Einstein made no efforts to distinguish between both alphabets.

This caused problems in a number of cases, because e.g. the small Greek 
alpha and the italic 'a' look identical.


>
>> E.g. the axes of the moving system k got intitially the names Xsi, Eta
>> and Zeta in tall Greek letters, but actually used were X, Y and Z.
>
> Nonsense.

see above.

In fact he named in the German version the axes of the system k with 
Greek letters.

The names of the systems were also bad.
He used four system:
K, k, k' and k''

To me the system made no sense, because of the inconsistent use of the 
symbol ' (prime).
...

TH

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Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-03 08:07 +0200
  Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 00:43 -0700
  Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 12:38 +0000
    Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-04 07:14 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 01:44 -0700
        Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-05 08:16 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 13:55 +0000
        Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-05 08:25 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-05 02:46 -0400
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-06 07:40 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-05 14:56 +0000
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-06 07:53 +0200
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-06 13:50 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-06 07:01 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-06 14:18 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-06 08:45 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-07 07:08 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 13:25 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 07:53 +0200
  Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-03 15:42 -0400
    Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-04 07:20 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-04 13:10 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 13:55 +0000
        Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-05 08:35 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-05 10:28 +0200
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-05 03:15 -0700
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-06 08:01 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-05 14:56 +0000
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-05 14:03 -0400
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-05 18:06 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-07 07:48 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 13:25 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 07:59 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Mitch Yamaguchi <sdvw@aozrihai.wg> - 2022-04-07 19:23 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 14:10 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 07:56 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-05 13:58 -0400
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-06 08:22 +0200
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-07 07:45 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 01:20 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 08:14 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 23:47 -0700
              Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 01:06 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 08:40 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 23:56 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 20:50 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-08 19:05 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-09 08:08 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-08 23:51 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-09 13:02 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Coke Hishikawa <uhva@blseummh.nm> - 2022-04-09 13:21 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-09 12:18 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-10 09:14 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-04-10 11:29 +0300
                Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-10 12:28 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-04-10 16:54 +0300
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-11 00:50 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-10 21:52 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-11 07:42 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 11:01 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2022-04-11 05:50 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-11 18:20 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 09:48 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2022-04-11 09:54 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 12:32 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-11 18:39 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 21:28 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-04-12 06:36 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 21:38 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-04-12 06:47 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 21:58 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-04-12 11:14 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-04-12 11:10 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 12:38 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-12 18:48 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-12 11:37 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-13 02:37 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-04-10 13:06 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-09 07:48 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-04-09 14:36 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-09 06:18 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-10 08:49 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-09 23:52 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-04-10 12:54 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-04-10 12:51 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-10 05:02 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-10 21:04 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-04-10 22:08 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-10 21:20 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-11 07:48 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2022-04-11 08:43 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-11 13:55 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-11 21:09 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2022-04-12 02:52 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-13 07:49 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2022-04-13 07:41 +0000
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Coke Hishikawa <uhva@blseummh.nm> - 2022-04-09 11:33 +0000
              Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-09 13:08 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-10 11:54 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-10 21:10 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 12:43 -0700
      Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-04 21:02 -0400
  Re: Annotated version of SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-04-03 22:31 +0200
  Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-04 13:10 +0200

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