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| Subject | Re: Decidability Decider H |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory, sci.logic, comp.ai.philosophy |
| References | (8 earlier) <u7umv5$3nkts$2@dont-email.me> <YUBoM.21244$Bq67.5702@fx13.iad> <u7ur2q$3o3ai$1@dont-email.me> <FhCoM.21248$Bq67.87@fx13.iad> <u7us05$3o3bd$3@dont-email.me> |
| From | Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> |
| Message-ID | <QECoM.21249$Bq67.11078@fx13.iad> (permalink) |
| Organization | Forte - www.forteinc.com |
| Date | 2023-07-03 12:26 -0400 |
Cross-posted to 3 groups.
On 7/3/23 12:11 PM, olcott wrote: > On 7/3/2023 11:01 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 7/3/23 11:56 AM, olcott wrote: >>> On 7/3/2023 10:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> On 7/3/23 10:45 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 7/3/2023 9:24 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>> On 7/3/23 9:47 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> On 7/3/2023 8:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/2/23 10:48 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2023 9:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/23 10:01 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2023 8:40 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/23 8:45 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> A single H can consistently correctly determine whether or >>>>>>>>>>>>> not its input >>>>>>>>>>>>> is pathological relative to itself. When H(D,D) is invoked in >>>>>>>>>>>>> decidability decider mode determines that D is pathological >>>>>>>>>>>>> relative to >>>>>>>>>>>>> itself this enables a batch file to invoke H1(D,D) to get >>>>>>>>>>>>> the actual >>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior of the directly executed D(D). H1 is identical to >>>>>>>>>>>>> H except for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the pathological relationship to H. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And does an input D that uses this FULL algorithm give your >>>>>>>>>>>> algorithm problems? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Since H(D,D) will (apparently) determine that the input is >>>>>>>>>>>> pathological, and thus defer to H1(D,D), then when we >>>>>>>>>>>> actually run D, appearently it will get that same answer >>>>>>>>>>>> from H1 and do the opposite of it, and thus H1 will be wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Remember, the "Pathological" program is built on a copy of >>>>>>>>>>>> the ACTUAL program that you ask to decide on it, including >>>>>>>>>>>> ALL of its "tricks", including things like this "batch >>>>>>>>>>>> processing". >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You seem to be assuming that there is some "Operationg >>>>>>>>>>>> System" outside the Decider - Input structure, but there >>>>>>>>>>>> isn't, at least not one that can affect the answer of the >>>>>>>>>>>> problem. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I spent 12 hours a day for the last 10 days getting the copy >>>>>>>>>>> the input >>>>>>>>>>> working. When H(D,D) (in decidability decider mode) detects >>>>>>>>>>> that its >>>>>>>>>>> input is in the well defined set of pathological inputs it >>>>>>>>>>> returns 0 >>>>>>>>>>> indicating that its input is undecidable. The batch file that >>>>>>>>>>> invoked H >>>>>>>>>>> then knows to invoke H1(D,D) to correctly report that D(D) >>>>>>>>>>> halts. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This solution does seem to work correctly on every >>>>>>>>>>> conventional proof in >>>>>>>>>>> every textbook. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So, did you make your "conventional proof" template actually >>>>>>>>>> use a copy of your ACTUAL decider (which seems to be your >>>>>>>>>> "batch file" not the C funciton H), or are you just admitting >>>>>>>>>> that you wasted 120 hours looking at the wrong thing because >>>>>>>>>> you have made yourself intentionally ignorant of the subject >>>>>>>>>> so you don't understand what you are trying to do. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> New_D copies its input and simulates its input with its input. >>>>>>>>> It never sees New_H. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why not? Since New_H is the thing that is considered the >>>>>>>> "Correct Halt Decider", New_D needs to be built on it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> New_H is embedded within New_D (as its middle states) just the >>>>>>> way it is supposed to be. The question is: Does New_H(New_H) halt? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The only difference at the source code level is: >>>>>>> (a) New_H copies its input, thus takes one param. >>>>>>> (b) New_H has an infinite loop at its accept state. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, how is New_H a halt decider then? >>>>> >>>>> typo >>>>> The only difference at the source code level is: >>>>> (a) New_D copies its input, thus takes one param. >>>>> (b) New_D has an infinite loop at its accept state. >>>>> Other than that (at the source-code level) New_D is exactly New_H >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> But New_D needs to call New_H, >>> >>> Not in the Peter Linz proof: >>> https://www.liarparadox.org/Linz_Proof.pdf >>> >>> In the Linz proof a copy of H is directly embedded >>> within Ĥ at this state: Ĥq0 Wm Wm >>> The original H remains unchanged. >>> >>> The halting problem is about undecidable inputs, it is not about >>> inserting bugs into a halt decider to make it cease to function. >>> >>> >> >> Right, and in Linz, H is the decider that is claimed to give the right >> answer. >> >> That isn't 'H' in your system, but the script that decides whether to >> use H or H1. >> >> Your error is in calling the wrong thing 'H' >> >> You are just showing you are lying by using the wrong name for things. > > You are using double-talk in a lame attempt to show that > Linz H cannot correctly determine the halt status of Linz Ĥ. > So you agree with the Theorem. No 'Linz H' can exist that correctly decides the halt status of Linz Ĥ applied to the description of Linz Ĥ. That is EXACTLY the consequence of the Halting Theorem. Please show an ACTUAL 'Linz H' that correctly gets the results of the 'Linz Ĥ' built on it. You keep on changing H and trying to use the old Ĥ which just fails to meet the requirement of the proof, likely because you just don't understand the theory involved.
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Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-02 19:45 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-07-03 03:11 +0200
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-02 21:27 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-02 21:40 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-02 21:01 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-07-03 04:05 +0200
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-02 22:37 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-02 22:10 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-02 22:54 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 09:14 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 10:10 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 11:35 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 10:41 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 11:58 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 11:09 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 12:26 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 13:00 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 14:25 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 13:49 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 15:58 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 15:03 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 17:07 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 09:13 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 09:42 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 11:35 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 10:44 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 11:58 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 11:05 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 12:26 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 13:03 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 14:25 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 14:25 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 13:56 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 15:58 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 15:08 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 17:07 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 16:30 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 17:34 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H [key Rice issue] olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 16:40 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H [key Rice issue] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 17:55 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H [key Rice issue] olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 20:51 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H [key Rice issue] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 23:22 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H [key Rice issue] olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 22:47 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H [key Rice issue] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-04 00:06 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H [key Rice issue] olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 23:35 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H [key Rice issue] Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2023-07-04 09:27 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H [key Rice issue] olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-04 16:32 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H [key Rice issue] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-04 19:00 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 15:45 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 17:07 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 16:19 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 17:31 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 16:36 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 17:55 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 21:28 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 23:22 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 11:58 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-02 22:41 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-02 21:48 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 09:14 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 08:47 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 10:24 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 09:45 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 11:35 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 10:56 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 12:01 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 11:11 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 12:26 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 12:57 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 14:25 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 13:48 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 15:58 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 15:22 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 17:17 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 16:34 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 17:55 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 21:20 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-03 23:22 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 22:56 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-04 00:06 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-03 23:57 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2023-07-04 09:27 -0400
Re: Decidability Decider H olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-07-04 16:52 -0500
Re: Decidability Decider H Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-07-04 19:00 -0400
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