Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution)

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.sys.mac.system, alt.comp.os.windows-10, alt.cellular-phone-tech
Subject	Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution)
Date	2017-05-07 19:05 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<070520171905124804%nospam@nospam.invalid> (permalink)
References	(20 earlier) <52QOA.20868$J16.17245@fx05.iad> <040520172105424392%nospam@nospam.invalid> <zl4PA.817$jo6.630@fx33.iad> <D5324827.A3B1F%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <7LaPA.239$Gw3.101@fx11.iad>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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In article <7LaPA.239$Gw3.101@fx11.iad>, Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> 
> At the time, PmView was my program of choice if I wanted to adjust 
> contrast, gamma, colour balance and sharpness.

that's all you were doing???

shitloads of apps can do that. that's basic stuff.

> It has a very easy 
> Select/copy/paste or Select/Cut/Paste for messing with pictures or 
> cleaning up spots etc on scans. tedious, but very accurate when working 
> on 200-500% zoomed images. I still use it for that occasionally (it runs 
> on Win 8.1 64, which shows it's a well coded program), but I prefer 
> XnView for adding (overlaying) text, Irfanview for slideshow creation, 
> and either one for colour etc adjustments. The trouble with PSE is that 
> it's still more complex than needed for the few things I want to do.

it's complexity is only there if you need it. 

if all you do is tweak contrast, gamma, colour balance and sharpness,
then you won't see any complexity at all.

it's even easier to do that in lightroom.

> If I were into pro- or semi-pro photography, I might find a use for 
> Photoshop, but if one takes care with lighting and exposure, and takes 
> multiple shots with different settings, one rarely has to use 
> manipulation tools. That was true in film days, and is still true with 
> digital.

nonsense.

ansel adams was a master of the darkroom. 

his photos *before* being processed looked rather bland. some might
even say boring.

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Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) "James Wilkinson Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> - 2017-05-04 12:32 +0100
  Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 10:43 -0700
    Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) "James Wilkinson Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> - 2017-05-04 19:13 +0100
      Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 11:38 -0700
        Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) "James Wilkinson Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> - 2017-05-04 20:07 +0100
          Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 12:16 -0700
            Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:21 -0400
              Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 12:31 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:49 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 14:15 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 18:02 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 15:31 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 18:34 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 16:15 -0700
            Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) "James Wilkinson Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> - 2017-05-04 20:42 +0100
              Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:49 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 14:38 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 18:02 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 15:29 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 18:31 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 16:17 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-04 19:56 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 20:00 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 15:07 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 15:54 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 15:08 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 18:52 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-04 20:32 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 21:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 15:30 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-04 17:51 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 18:02 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 16:23 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-04 20:27 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 21:07 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 16:22 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 16:36 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 17:35 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 15:37 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 15:28 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 19:11 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 16:24 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 19:00 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 16:17 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-04 20:53 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 21:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 18:58 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 15:26 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 15:54 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 17:17 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 15:37 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-05 18:05 -0500
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 16:10 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 19:11 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-05 21:51 -0500
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-07 18:10 -0500
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:23 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 16:27 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-07 18:32 -0500
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 19:11 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 22:49 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 22:41 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 15:13 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 12:18 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 20:44 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-08 10:41 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 11:01 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 20:07 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 17:21 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 15:26 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 19:11 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 16:28 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 16:35 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 16:09 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:23 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 16:30 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 20:09 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 17:23 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-08 10:41 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-08 11:29 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 10:57 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 10:45 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 21:26 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 19:48 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-08 09:49 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-08 10:41 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-08 11:10 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 11:03 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 10:42 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-08 10:41 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-08 12:16 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 19:52 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 16:54 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 20:09 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 17:24 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-08 10:41 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 10:43 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 15:17 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 22:43 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 21:12 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 15:04 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 12:11 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 20:36 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-08 10:41 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 11:00 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 19:55 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 20:09 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 18:48 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 21:07 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 18:51 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 21:55 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 18:57 -0700
              Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 14:24 -0700
          Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:21 -0400
            Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 12:35 -0700
      Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 14:48 -0400
        Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 12:10 -0700
          Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:21 -0400
            Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 12:33 -0700
              Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:49 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 14:16 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-04 17:47 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 16:18 -0700

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