Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution)

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.sys.mac.system, alt.comp.os.windows-10, alt.cellular-phone-tech
Subject	Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution)
Date	2017-05-05 19:11 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<050520171911484026%nospam@nospam.invalid> (permalink)
References	(21 earlier) <52QOA.20868$J16.17245@fx05.iad> <040520172105424392%nospam@nospam.invalid> <zl4PA.817$jo6.630@fx33.iad> <050520171554243329%nospam@nospam.invalid> <uZ5PA.1037$3S4.296@fx17.iad>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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In article <uZ5PA.1037$3S4.296@fx17.iad>, Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> >>>> I had a Powerbook G4. Bought it because I wanted it for simple
> >>>> plug'n'play in internet cafes. Windows laptops were just catching up
> >>>> back then. I'd also formed the impression that the Mac would be a better
> >>>> machine for graphics etc. It wasn't. I wanted something as simple and
> >>>> powerful as PmView (a nice little image viewer-editor for DOS, Windows
> >>>> and OS/2, which is now orphanware).
> >>>
> >>> there were all sorts of image viewers and editors available. you just
> >>> didn't bother looking particularly hard.
> >>
> >> Ah, yes, I recall you visiting me and looking over my shoulder and
> >> making notes. You no doubt consulted your records just now. So, how many
> >> programs did I actually test?
> >
> > apparently not very many.
> >
> > why don't you list exactly which apps they were?
> 
> Oh, so you expect me to have kept a record? It was over 10 years ago, as 
> you should have inferred form various references and details in my 
> narrative.
> 
> FTR, I tried around two dozen graphics programs whose descriptions 
> sounded like they were close to what I wanted. "Close" varied, but I did 
> use a couple of them while I had the G4. Not one of them was as simple 
> and powerful as PmView.

what exactly did you want to do?? you've yet to mention what this
mystery function is.

from what i can tell from pmview, it doesn't do anything special that
can't be done on a mac in a variety of ways. 

you claim you searched high and low for apps, but i find that
incredibly difficult to believe that if you really did, you found
nothing.

> >> You know, I'm losing my temper with your asinine macdroid comments.
> >
> > nothing about this is mac specific.
> >
> > it's clear you hate macs and are looking for any excuse to bash them.
> 
> No, I don't hate Macs. I just became deeply disappointed. But I do 
> dislike people who think they know what I did better than I do.

i dislike people who claim things that don't hold up to scrutiny.

> > whatever search you claim to have done was nothing more than a cursory
> > search so you could confirm your ignorant belief that there isn't any
> > good software for macs.
> 
> So you think I blew $2000 (in today's money) on a machine just to prove 
> it was no good?
> 
> Gad, but you're a thickheaded twit. And that's the most polite term I 
> can think of.
> 
> There was no desire to confirm anything whatsoever. I wanted to have a 
> machine I could use. I liked the specs of the G4, and I fully expected 
> to be able to adapt it to my preferences and quirks as much as I wanted. 
> I expected it it to be my main machine until it wore out, or until Apple 
> offered better price/quality, whichever came first.
> 
> I wanted to find software that I could use. I used that G4 for three 
> years, owned it for four. It took me quite a while to realise that I 
> couldn't get what I wanted. In my more cynical moments since then I've 
> inferred that the reason was Apple's unwillingness to allow 3rd party 
> software that was a) cheaper; and b) better than their own.

apple does not prohibit third party software. period. 

where in the world did you get that crazy idea???

comments like that tell me it's *you* who is the thickheaded twit.

> > the reality is that there were all sorts of image editing apps on a
> > mac, with plenty more now, ones that are far better than what was
> > available on windows and certainly linux, which is why graphic artists
> > overwhelmingly chose macs.
> 
> Maybe so, but not for the rather simple goals I wanted to achieve.

what were those simple goals?

> >>>> Nothing like it in the Mac world. I
> >>>> tried the bundled photo-app, gaah! Pathetic.
> >>>
> >>> in another post, you said most people only need to make minor tweaks to
> >>> photos. the bundled photos app, then called iphoto, was mostly that.
> >>
> >> It's no better than PmView (or as XnView and Irfanview do now).
> >
> > iphoto is not intended to do what pmview does.
> 
> That was not the impression I got from its description. I expected it to 
> be a basic photo-app: view and tweak. If it did more than that, OK, but 
> not relevant.

iphoto is a basic photo app, which can view and tweak plus a whole lot
more.

> > no wonder you had problems.
> >
> >> From my
> >> POV iPhoto had other flaws, mainly that it was also a photo-file
> >> manager, and I didn't find a way to force it to use my folder-tree.
> >
> > that's not a flaw. that's one of its major *features*.
> 
> Yes, and one it insisted on performing whether I wanted it done or not. 
> See, what really threw me, and sent me on a quest for alternatives, is 
> that I prefer to organise my data in my own folder trees. I don't care 
> to have a program do that for me.

it will do a better job than you ever could, and with a lot less effort
too.

computers are there to do work *for* you, not the other way around.

however, for those that insist on doing things the hard way, iphoto as
well as other asset managers can use an existing file/folder hierarchy.
there's very little benefit in doing so, but nothing prevents it.

> > keeping photos in a folder-tree is incredibly limiting and does not
> > scale. it's a very bad way to manage photos and other assets.
> 
> For you, not for me.

for everyone, not just me.

computers can do a *much* better job of organizing and retrieving
content than humans can.

for example, you could query 'paris in winter' and get exactly that.
you could query for 'photos of laura' and get exactly that too. or the
queries can be complex, such as 'photos of laura and julie, without
mary, in paris and taken at night'. it could be more generic, such as
'photos without people' or 'photos of mountains'. 

good luck trying to do any of that with a folder/file hierarchy. at
best it's a pain in the ass, but more commonly, it's not possible at
all.

> >> There's probably a way of doing that,
> >
> > there is, but it's a bad idea.
> 
> For you, not for me.

see above.

> >> but after using it twice and
> >> finding that it wouldn't save the photos where I wanted them saved,
> >
> > saving is automatic, as it should be.
> 
> The only automatic Save should be of unfinished work at regular 
> intervals, and each of those versions should be retrievable at will. But 
> at any time, you should be able to direct the Save to where you want it, 
> not where the program designer thinks it should go. (BTW, I don't use 
> Windows "libraries" for the same reasons).

with a non-destructive workflow, there is no saving to the original
file so there's nothing to direct. 

the app manages that *for* you, and as a result, you can do all sorts
of things not otherwise possible. once you're happy with the photo, you
can drag it to anywhere you want or export it directly to a photo
sharing service, web site, etc. with a click or two.

since it's non-destructive, you can undo what you did long after you
did it. for instance, you could go back and *uncrop* what you cropped
out a year earlier. 

that's one of many reasons why the computer should be managing things
*for* you.

> >> I  gave up on it.
> >
> > of course you did, just like you gave up with your supposed search.
> 
> You have no idea. You really don't.

i'm *very* familiar with what graphic apps have been available on the
mac going back many, many years.

what exactly is this mystery function you claim to need, which no app
could do?

> >> I built a Windows desktop, installed OS/2 (which ran
> >> Windows natively), and used that.
> >
> > thereby making a *lot* more work for yourself.
> 
> Nope.

not wrong at all.

building a computer and then manually managing photos once it's built
takes more time, effort and money than having an existing computer
analyze and sort photos *for* you (and do a better job too). 

> > had you put half that effort into searching for available photo editors
> > on a mac, you'd have found something that did what you wanted in a way
> > you wanted, and if you learned about asset managers, you'd find out why
> > they're *very* useful (and it's not just an apple thing either).
> 
> How many times do I have to repeat that I Did. Not. Find. What. I. Wanted.

what exactly did you want?

again, i find it very difficult to believe that there is some mystery
function you have yet to mention can't be done on a mac.

> >>>> There simply wasn't the range and quality of 3rd party software
> >>>> available for the Mac. Things have changed some since then, but it's too
> >>>> late to win me back.
> >>>
> >>> your loss.
> >>
> >> Not at all.
> >
> > yes, at all.
> >
> >> There was only one program that almost persuaded me to stay with or go
> >> back to the Mac: Metasynth. But I realised I don't have the talent to
> >> use it properly.
> >
> > further proof you never looked very hard for available apps.
> 
> Further proof that you are incapable of imagining anyone else's POV.

that would be you.

> As recently as three months ago I seriously considered buying a Mac just 
> so I could run Metasynth (I'm on their mailing list, you should be able 
> to figure out why). Imagine! $2000 to $3000 CAD total, just so I could 
> play with a music-making program! If it were available on Windows, I 
> wouldn't hesitate, but the extra dosh for a Mac is hard to justify just 
> for fun.

no extra dosh needed.

macs are competitively priced with pcs, and in many cases, *less*
expensive.

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Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) "James Wilkinson Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> - 2017-05-04 12:32 +0100
  Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 10:43 -0700
    Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) "James Wilkinson Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> - 2017-05-04 19:13 +0100
      Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 11:38 -0700
        Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) "James Wilkinson Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> - 2017-05-04 20:07 +0100
          Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 12:16 -0700
            Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:21 -0400
              Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 12:31 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:49 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 14:15 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 18:02 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 15:31 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 18:34 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 16:15 -0700
            Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) "James Wilkinson Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> - 2017-05-04 20:42 +0100
              Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:49 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 14:38 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 18:02 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 15:29 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 18:31 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 16:17 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-04 19:56 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 20:00 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 15:07 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 15:54 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 15:08 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 18:52 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-04 20:32 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 21:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 15:30 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-04 17:51 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 18:02 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 16:23 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-04 20:27 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 21:07 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 16:22 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 16:36 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 17:35 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 15:37 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 15:28 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 19:11 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 16:24 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 19:00 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 16:17 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-04 20:53 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 21:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 18:58 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 15:26 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 15:54 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 17:17 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 15:37 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-05 18:05 -0500
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 16:10 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 19:11 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-05 21:51 -0500
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-07 18:10 -0500
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:23 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 16:27 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-07 18:32 -0500
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 19:11 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 22:49 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 22:41 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 15:13 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 12:18 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 20:44 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-08 10:41 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 11:01 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 20:07 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 17:21 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 15:26 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-05 19:11 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 16:28 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 16:35 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 16:09 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:23 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 16:30 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 20:09 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 17:23 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-08 10:41 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-08 11:29 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 10:57 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 10:45 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 21:26 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 19:48 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-08 09:49 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-08 10:41 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-08 11:10 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 11:03 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 10:42 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-08 10:41 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-08 12:16 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 19:52 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 16:54 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 20:09 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 17:24 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-08 10:41 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 10:43 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 15:17 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-05 22:43 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-05 21:12 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 15:04 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 12:11 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 20:36 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-08 10:41 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 11:00 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 19:05 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-07 19:55 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 20:09 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 18:48 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 21:07 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 18:51 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 21:55 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 18:57 -0700
              Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 14:24 -0700
          Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:21 -0400
            Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 12:35 -0700
      Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 14:48 -0400
        Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 12:10 -0700
          Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:21 -0400
            Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 12:33 -0700
              Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:49 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 14:16 -0700
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2017-05-04 17:47 -0400
                Re: Phonemes (was Re: Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man's electrocution) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-04 16:18 -0700

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