Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement)

From	billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Newsgroups	comp.os.vms
Subject	Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement)
Date	2011-04-27 22:41 +0000
Organization	Computing Sciences Dept., University of Scranton
Message-ID	<91rkbsFdnbU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <ip7iq9$knl$3@online.de> <paul.nospam-E7CED8.13153227042011@pbook.sture.ch> <ip9ack$kk8$1@online.de> <91qpnqFvaoU3@mid.individual.net> <b19f9432-78a4-444b-9638-7206c84fba1e@n10g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

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In article <b19f9432-78a4-444b-9638-7206c84fba1e@n10g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
	Steven Schweda <sms.antinode@gmail.com> writes:
> On Apr 27, 10:06 am, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
> 
>> I seem to remember it being stated here that there really was no way
>> for Hobbyists to report these problems and that HP wasn't really
>> interested in what Hobyists reported anyway.
> 
>    An e-mail message to "OpenVMS.Programs@..." normally gets a
> response, although it may be merely a suggestion to get a
> paying victim to request a fix.

Now, isn't that what I just said? 

> 
>> [...]   I know if I was a
>> production shop I would not place any value on the testing done by a
>> "hobbyist".  I would either test it myself in my environment or just
>> trust the company that has liability if it all goes to hell.
> 
>    I realize that among your strong points, reasoned argument
> is not the most prominent, 

Typical cov response.  If your argument has no merit, insult your
opponent.

>                             but perhaps you could explain how a
> problem report which is produced by a "hobbyist" necessarily
> lacks value,

What did you just say up above?  What's the differnce between a
report from a "Hobbyist" and a report from a "paying victim"?
Apparently it means something to HP or they would never have made
the statement YOU attributed to them above.

>                or how wise it is to expect "the company that has
> liability" to get you back from the Hell it sends you to if
> you let "it all go" there.

Well, if you can't rely on the product and you have no legal recourse
if it fails dismally and ruins you, what kind of fool are you to bet
the farm on it?

> 
>    I understand that you may have no respect for the Hobbyist
> program, its participants, 

On the contrary.  I have used it for more than a decade.  And
I wish the same was available for other OSes (in particular,
for the PDP-11).  But.....

>                             or its results, 

What results?  The fact that it lets people play with an otherwise
very obscure OS that has lost all relevance in the IT world?

>                                             but sometimes it
> can be helpful to argue rationally from facts, rather than
> trying to prop up one's prejudices with noise like this.

You really should learn more about your opponents before you try
insulting them.  I spent a lot of effort trying to prolong the
presence of VMS in academia bith here and in general even when
HP was so out of touch with that facet of the market that they
could not even see a problem.  All of that to the detrement of
my career as I was considered even more of a dinosaur for trying
to justify using a "legacy" OS.

>    Just a thought.

Not much thought in it, though.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999@cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>

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HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Wilm Boerhout <wboerhout@gmail.com> - 2011-04-26 00:38 -0700
  Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply) - 2011-04-26 08:05 +0000
    Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) "John Reagan" <johnrreagan@earthlink.net> - 2011-04-26 07:41 -0400
      Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply) - 2011-04-26 12:31 +0000
        Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-04-26 13:31 +0000
          Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply) - 2011-04-26 14:08 +0000
            Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-04-26 15:54 +0000
              Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2011-04-26 17:18 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-04-26 15:27 -0400
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply) - 2011-04-26 23:01 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Com> - 2011-04-26 20:27 -0400
              Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply) - 2011-04-26 22:54 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-27 13:18 +0200
          Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-26 16:00 +0200
            Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-04-26 15:47 +0000
              Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Steven Schweda <sms.antinode@gmail.com> - 2011-04-26 11:34 -0700
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-04-26 18:50 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-04-26 19:23 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Steven Schweda <sms.antinode@gmail.com> - 2011-04-26 14:11 -0700
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply) - 2011-04-26 23:00 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-27 13:15 +0200
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-04-27 12:52 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-28 16:35 +0200
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply) - 2011-04-27 14:48 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2011-04-27 16:57 +0200
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-04-27 15:06 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2011-04-27 17:15 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Steven Schweda <sms.antinode@gmail.com> - 2011-04-27 13:14 -0700
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-04-27 22:41 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Steven Schweda <sms.antinode@gmail.com> - 2011-04-27 17:03 -0700
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-04-28 01:05 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply) - 2011-04-27 16:12 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply) - 2011-04-27 16:22 +0000
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-28 04:19 -0400
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-04-27 15:48 -0400
              Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply) - 2011-04-26 22:50 +0000
      Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Ken Fairfield <ken.fairfield@gmail.com> - 2011-04-26 09:58 -0700
        Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) "Steven Underwood" <nobody@spamcop.net> - 2011-04-26 20:27 -0400
          Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) IanMiller <gxys@uk2.net> - 2011-04-27 02:06 -0700
            Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) IanMiller <gxys@uk2.net> - 2011-04-27 02:09 -0700
            Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Steven Schweda <sms.antinode@gmail.com> - 2011-04-27 06:02 -0700
              Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-04-27 14:47 -0400
              Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) IanMiller <gxys@uk2.net> - 2011-04-28 02:24 -0700
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-04-28 08:40 -0400
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-28 16:36 +0200
                Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) IanMiller <gxys@uk2.net> - 2011-04-28 08:34 -0700
    Re: HP Support Center June Release (ITRC Retirement) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2011-04-26 17:13 +0000

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