Re: GNU

From	Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc, alt.usage.english, soc.culture.south-africa, za.politics
Subject	Re: GNU
Date	2026-03-21 05:51 +0200
Organization	Khanya Publications
Message-ID	<h85srkt9otec52hsileus8n3e8a8nlvqbl@4ax.com> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <10pcuva$3ekal$1@dont-email.me> <1rs5wf2.17buamv1r372cN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <10pf9r1$8fm8$1@dont-email.me> <ovhprkd2idjve0qaimkgt9sorr0h23re8e@4ax.com> <10pin15$1b547$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 16:47:13 +1100, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
wrote:

>On 20/03/26 15:10, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Mar 2026 09:43:41 +1100, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
>> wrote:
>
>>> In practice, all of the companies that we think of as "electricity
>>> companies" produce no electricity, and own no generators or transmission
>>> lines. They are pure marketing firms. As such, they do no planning for
>>> the future.The underlying assumption is that the hardware can sit in the
>>> background looking after itself, and that the only important thing is
>>> bidding and investment strategies.
>>>
>>> As far as I know, the top-level energy market regulator employs no
>>> engineers. The whole system is run by accountants and lawyers. The
>>> people who do the design and analysis and system planning still exist,
>>> for now, but they are gradually being edged out.
>>
>> The smae thing has been happening in South Africa -- instead of
>> engineers, they have MBAs running things, often with disastrous
>> results.
>>
>> I blame Maggie Thatcher.
>
>It is surprisingly difficult to discover who is doing the engineering
>planning for the Australian electricity grid. The most concrete
>statement I could find by googling was this:
>
>"Many of the issues the industry is presently facing are due to the fact
>that there has been a substantial de-engineering of the organisations 
>driving
>the electricity industry."
>
>This is from a submission by Englineers Australia to a government
>enquiry. I think this is the first time I've encountered the word
>"de-engineering".

Different sckill sets. 

Engineers are trained to look for the source of a problem and fix it.

MBAs are trasined to use PR to hide the problems they don't know how
to solve -- often even from themselves. 



-- 
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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Re: GNU Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 18:22 +0000
  Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 20:21 +0000
  Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-16 21:44 +0100
    Re: GNU Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 23:20 +0000
    Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-17 11:10 +1100
      Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-17 00:58 +0000
        Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-17 13:24 +0100
        Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-18 12:25 +1100
          Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 01:47 +0000
            Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-18 02:06 +0000
              Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-18 17:16 +1100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 10:13 +0000
                Re: GNU Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 10:26 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 10:55 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 12:11 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 11:18 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 14:03 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 13:17 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 11:48 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 13:29 +0000
                Re: GNU Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-03-19 13:31 -0400
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:16 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 23:32 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 08:39 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 19:30 +0000
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-20 12:38 -0700
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 09:59 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 09:59 +0000
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-19 14:30 -0700
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 07:20 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 22:32 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 07:36 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-20 11:18 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:32 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-22 15:24 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 07:38 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-20 11:16 +0100
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-19 08:39 -0700
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 18:30 +0000
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:09 +0000
                Re: GNU Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 00:14 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-21 05:04 +0000
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-22 02:00 +0200
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-22 05:40 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 10:38 +0000
                Re: GNU Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 18:46 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 22:57 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-22 06:05 +0000
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
                Re: GNU Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-22 09:55 +0000
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-21 20:55 -0700
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-21 20:22 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:00 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 19:44 +0100
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 11:48 +0100
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-19 14:08 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 14:08 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 22:32 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 07:42 +0000
                Re: GNU Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-03-20 17:47 -0400
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-20 22:31 +0000
                Re: GNU Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 23:54 +0000
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:52 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 13:20 +0000
                Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-18 22:25 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 13:39 +0100
              Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 10:04 +0000
              Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 12:18 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 11:36 +0000
                Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-19 00:34 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 13:03 +0000
                Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-19 16:45 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 18:56 +0000
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-19 14:40 -0700
                Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-19 23:27 +0000
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-19 17:40 -0700
                Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-20 01:09 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 08:20 +0000
                Re: GNU richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-03-20 02:50 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 08:22 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 08:15 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 08:12 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-19 14:20 +0100
              Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 13:05 +0100
          Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 13:05 +0100
            Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 19:47 +0100
            Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-19 09:43 +1100
              Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-20 06:10 +0200
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-20 16:47 +1100
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-21 05:51 +0200
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 10:39 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-21 20:21 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 08:51 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-20 11:32 +0100
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-22 02:22 +0200
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-22 12:23 +1100
                Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-22 00:36 -0400
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-22 05:10 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-22 05:22 +0000
                Re: GNU Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-03-22 20:17 +1300
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-22 10:52 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-22 10:07 +0000
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-23 02:23 +0200
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-23 11:57 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-23 11:21 +0000
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-24 07:29 +0200
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-24 08:35 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-23 11:04 +0000
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-24 07:32 +0200
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-24 08:35 +0000
                Re: GNU John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 08:51 -0700
      Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 02:37 +0100
      Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 02:39 +0100
        Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-17 13:01 +1100
      Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 01:47 +0000
      Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 09:05 +0000
        Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-17 13:24 +0100
      Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-17 13:24 +0100
        Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 22:41 +0100
          Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-17 23:28 +0100
  Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 14:03 +0100
    Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 19:49 +0100
      Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 20:54 +0100

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