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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #83461

Re: GNU

From The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc, alt.usage.english
Subject Re: GNU
Date 2026-03-19 13:03 +0000
Organization A little, after lunch
Message-ID <10pgs6t$mdso$6@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (23 earlier) <10pcuva$3ekal$1@dont-email.me> <10pd070$3ei4j$3@dont-email.me> <1rs59mz.nw27v8yy97eoN%snipeco.2@gmail.com> <h9eq8mxcen.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <1rs6zxq.mlmj391d40otdN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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.
On 19/03/2026 00:34, Sn!pe wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> Sn!pe wrote:
> [...]
>>> Is the concept of inertia due to rotating machinery relevant to this?
>>> I read somewhere that the increasing proportion of non-rotating
>>> generating equipment (e.g. solar) was a factor in the Spanish collapse.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, but the direct cause was that some of the plants with inertia that
>> were being paid to regulate, did not, either by failure or by neglect.
>>
>> Inverters are normally designed so that they follow the grid frequency.
>> But they can be designed to enforce a frequency and phase, ie, to
>> provide inertia (actually more inertia than iron). This is being done
>> now, I posted an article about this two days ago.
>>
>> Message-ID: <fm6m8mxm7p.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
>>
> 
> Thank you for the reminder, Carlos, I've just re-read it.
> 
> I imagine that if anyone might have an opinion on this topic
> worthy of consideration, it would likely be a Spaniard.
> 
Whether the inverter follows the grid or leads it is dependent on 
whether it has access to stored energy to enable it to do that thing

Don't fall for pseudo technical bullshit.

The nub of the problem is that renewable energy of the solar and wind 
sort has zero or close to zero energy stored in kinetics, and its output 
is massively variable on sub minute timescales.

It needs energy storage to stabilise the output - to absorb the peaks 
and fill in the troughs.

If that energy is a battery, yes it will have an inverter that can lead 
the grid.  But that is not the issue.

The issue is that renewable energy of the intermittent kind *cannot 
operate alone* as a source of stable reliable electricity.

Whether is is backed up by expensive spinning reserves, or expensive 
batteries, it beeds access to very fast reacting storage.

This is the fundamental point, not the detailed technical description of 
how this storage is utilised.

And it drives a fundamental stake through the heart of the claim that 
'renewable energy is cheap because the sun and wind are free'

Even if the technology were cheap (which it is not) the infrastructure 
to enable it to work is extremely expensive and the backup systems and 
maintenance are scarcely zero carbon

Look at the poor gas power stations that Carlos blames for not running 
spinning reserve when they are supposed to. Why would they? They are 
burning gas, wearing out their turbines and repaying debt on the 
principal used to construct them, but not receiving a penny for the 
electricity *they are not allowed to generate, because 'renewables by 
law must take precedence*.

It isn't worth their while to operate at all. It certainly isn't worth 
capital to invest in efficient combined cycle ones.

In fact it is far cheaper to throw in simple diesel generators at 40% 
thermal efficiency to fill the air with CO2. Or open cycle gas at 
similar efficiencies. And bang goes *all* the carbon savings of 
'renewables', once you add in the insane maintenance costs of e.,g 
windmills that is done using diesel vehicles to access them...

*Holistically* renewable grids are about 2-5 times more expensive than 
gas, coal or nuclear and represent  no overall global  carbon emissions 
reduction *at all*.

How do I know this? It's not because I am some sort of far right 
Believer. It is because I have am  honours masters degree in electrical 
engineering and have done my own research and calculations over the last 
decade and a half.


-- 
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

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                Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-06 14:33 +0000
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                Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-06 14:34 +0000
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                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-07 21:56 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-08 09:50 +1100
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-08 02:06 +0000
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                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-07 12:31 +0000
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                Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-07 12:46 +0100
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-07 13:01 +0100
                Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-07 13:57 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-07 13:48 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-07 23:13 +0000
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                Re: GNU Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-07 15:10 +0000
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                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-07 08:49 -0800
                Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-07 15:06 -0600
                Re: GNU richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-03-07 21:30 +0000
                Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-07 16:35 -0500
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                Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-08 22:02 -0600
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                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-08 16:52 +1100
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-08 14:28 -0700
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-07 23:32 +0000
                Re: GNU Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 16:21 -0700
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-08 09:59 +1100
                Re: GNU Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 09:43 +0000
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                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-07 23:04 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-07 22:40 +0000
                Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-08 07:39 +0100
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                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 11:42 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 17:52 +0000
                Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-08 19:51 +0000
                Re: GNU Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid> - 2026-03-08 20:23 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 20:52 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 13:59 +0000
                Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 16:32 -0400
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-08 20:46 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-09 10:02 +1100
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 00:19 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 14:04 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 20:52 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 23:57 +0000
                Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 00:31 -0400
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-09 05:00 +0000
                Re: GNU Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-03-09 22:48 +1300
                Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-09 10:14 +0100
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-10 09:32 +0200
                Re: GNU John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 09:10 -0700
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-09 01:16 +0200
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 00:58 +0000
                Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 01:07 -0400
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-09 06:22 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 08:00 +0000
                Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-09 10:09 +0000
                Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-09 06:16 +0000
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-09 06:24 +0000
                Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-09 06:54 +0000
                Re: GNU Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-03-09 07:37 +0000
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-10 09:37 +0200
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-10 10:37 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-11 10:09 +1100
                Re: GNU Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-03-10 13:25 +0000
                Re: GNU Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2026-03-10 14:26 +0000
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-10 19:35 +0000
                Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-10 15:49 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-15 12:54 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-15 12:07 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-16 12:11 +1100
                Re: GNU Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-03-16 07:07 +0000
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-16 07:50 +0000
                Re: GNU Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-03-16 22:03 +1300
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 13:00 +0000
                Re: GNU Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-03-17 18:08 +0000
                Re: GNU Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-03-16 09:28 +0000
                Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-16 10:36 +0000
                Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-16 08:58 +0100
                Re: GNU Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-03-16 09:28 +0000
                Re: GNU Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-03-16 09:34 +1300
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-15 22:23 +0100
                Re: GNU Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-15 23:38 +0000
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-15 21:24 -0700
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 12:56 +0000
                Re: GNU Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-03-16 12:27 +0000
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-15 22:27 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-16 13:29 +1100
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-16 06:29 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-16 17:52 +1100
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 00:32 -0700
                Re: GNU Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-03-16 12:41 +0000
                Re: GNU John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 08:55 -0700
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-17 10:03 +1100
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 01:01 +0000
                Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-17 08:18 +0100
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 19:03 +0000
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-17 12:27 -0700
                Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-17 22:23 +0100
                Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-17 22:18 +0100
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-18 10:42 +1100
                Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-17 22:29 -0600
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-17 19:35 +0000
                Re: GNU John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 12:39 -0700
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-17 15:55 -0700
                Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-18 07:47 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 09:42 +0000
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 09:06 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 08:08 +0000
                Re: GNU Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-03-09 09:45 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 14:12 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 21:52 +0000
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-09 23:07 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-10 16:28 +1100
                Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-10 08:57 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-10 10:30 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-10 17:53 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-15 19:24 +0100
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-10 05:34 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-10 10:32 +0000
                Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-10 12:43 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-10 11:47 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-10 18:10 +0000
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-10 19:35 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-10 18:06 +0000
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-10 19:35 +0000
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-10 19:35 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-11 10:13 +1100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-11 09:57 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-11 21:41 +1100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-11 12:19 +0000
                Re: GNU vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-03-11 14:19 +0000
                Re: GNU Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-03-12 02:49 +0000
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-12 04:51 +0000
                Encodings (was: Re: GNU) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-12 10:36 +0000
                Re: GNU liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-03-11 17:55 +0000
                Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-11 19:03 +0000
                Re: GNU richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-03-11 19:11 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-11 20:22 +0000
                Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-11 22:06 +0000
                Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-11 11:40 -0600
                Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-10 13:56 -0600
                Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-09 22:10 -0600
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-09 21:17 +1100
                Re: GNU Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-03-10 11:40 +1300
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-10 16:34 +1100
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 08:07 +0000
                Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-09 13:29 +0000
                Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-09 15:48 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 20:49 +0000
                Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-09 14:36 +0000
                Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-09 11:35 -0600
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 14:07 +0000
                Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-09 14:11 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 14:25 +0000
                Re: GNU Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-03-09 15:45 +0000
                Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 00:49 -0400
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-09 16:42 +1100
                Re: GNU Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-03-09 08:18 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 14:14 +0000
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-09 20:32 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 08:10 +0000
                Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-09 12:51 -0600
                Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 15:23 -0400
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-10 09:42 +0200
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-10 09:46 +0200
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-11 20:59 +0100
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 20:58 +0000
                Re: GNU John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 09:04 -0700
                Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-09 10:00 +0000
                Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-08 22:06 -0600
                Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-09 06:25 +0000
                Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-09 10:28 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 11:38 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 16:59 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-07 12:34 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-07 22:37 +0100
                Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-07 17:00 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-07 22:35 +0100
                Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-07 16:25 -0600
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-08 14:30 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 06:02 +0000
                Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-08 07:42 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 11:42 +0000
                Re: GNU Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 16:40 -0700
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 14:20 +0000
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-07 18:41 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-07 23:37 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-07 22:33 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-15 22:05 +0100
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-08 09:53 +1100
                Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-08 07:45 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 11:56 +0000
                Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-08 20:54 +0000
                Re: GNU Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-03-09 22:08 +1300
                Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-09 13:31 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-07 12:28 +0000
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-08 03:01 +0200
                Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-08 01:40 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 04:37 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 06:22 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 07:32 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-08 20:27 +1100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 11:30 +0000
                Re: GNU richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-03-08 11:41 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-09 10:09 +1100
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 16:56 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-09 10:13 +1100
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-15 22:13 +0100
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-15 15:27 -0700
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 12:55 +0000
                Re: GNU Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-03-16 09:13 -0400
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 13:19 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-16 20:40 +0000
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 14:32 -0700
                Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 17:48 -0400
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 15:15 -0700
                Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 20:00 -0400
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-17 11:23 +1100
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-17 00:51 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 01:23 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 02:41 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:50 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 12:58 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 12:22 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 15:24 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 19:05 +0000
                Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 10:16 -0400
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 19:05 +0000
                Re: GNU Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-03-17 11:49 -0400
                Re: GNU Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 17:14 -0700
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 00:18 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 19:09 +0000
                Re: GNU Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-03-17 13:38 +0000
                Re: GNU John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 15:08 -0700
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 15:18 -0700
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 01:25 +0000
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 21:47 -0700
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-18 05:35 +0200
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 10:16 +0000
                Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-20 05:53 +0200
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 08:46 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-20 11:32 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:36 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-20 11:32 +0100
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-20 08:26 -0700
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:51 +0000
                Re: GNU John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 09:26 -0700
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 19:10 +0000
                Re: GNU Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 23:11 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-17 10:27 +1100
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 01:27 +0000
                Re: GNU "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-17 10:33 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 02:49 +0100
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-17 02:59 +0000
                Re: GNU Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-03-17 23:08 +1300
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-17 13:24 +0100
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 15:33 +0100
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 21:51 -0700
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 06:23 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:58 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:55 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-17 13:24 +0100
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 18:56 +0000
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-17 22:59 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:07 +0100
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 04:01 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 14:03 +0100
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 01:20 +0000
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 22:08 -0700
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 09:02 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:47 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:47 +0000
                Re: GNU "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-17 10:41 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-18 11:04 +1100
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 14:03 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 13:14 +0000
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-17 10:21 +1100
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-17 00:55 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 02:53 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 09:10 +0000
                Re: GNU Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-03-17 11:43 -0400
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 22:37 +0100
                Re: GNU Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-03-17 18:43 -0400
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:15 +0100
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 02:19 +0000
                Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-18 02:29 +0000
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-17 20:17 -0700
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 09:31 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 11:41 +0100
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 18:28 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:31 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 23:26 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 11:48 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 12:17 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-19 13:31 +0100
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 14:24 +0100
                Re: GNU Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-04-01 14:30 +0200
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-04-02 10:48 +1100
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
                Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-18 10:16 -0600
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-18 09:40 -0700
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 16:56 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 20:00 +0100
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 23:49 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 11:48 +0100
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-19 13:34 +0100
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 14:24 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 14:06 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 22:32 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 07:38 +0000
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0100
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:22 +0100
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-20 11:32 +0100
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:34 +0100
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-21 22:32 +0100
                Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-19 15:24 +0000
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 17:50 +0000
                Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 19:58 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-20 11:32 +0100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 12:19 +0000
                Re: GNU Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 17:36 -0700
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-19 03:01 +0100
                Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-18 19:16 -0700
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-19 13:36 +0100
                Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 00:24 +0000
                Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-18 22:48 -0600
                Re: GNU Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-03-18 22:45 +0100
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 10:01 +0100
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 11:42 +0100
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-20 12:39 +0100
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:38 +0100
                Re: GNU Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:22 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-21 22:32 +0100
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-22 03:19 +0100
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-22 10:52 +0100
                Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-22 15:12 +0100
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-22 18:37 +0100
                Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-22 16:31 -0400
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-22 23:31 +0100
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-22 23:18 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-23 11:57 +0100
                Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-23 22:15 +1100
                Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-23 11:30 +0000
                Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-23 13:55 +0100
                Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 09:15 +0000
                Re: GNU Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-03-24 10:17 +0000

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