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Re: Agile Project Management

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On 12-02-12 12:03 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 2/12/2012 10:43 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
[ SNIP ]

>> A side-note about (changing) requirements: when people who purport to
>> follow Agile tell me that requirements change all the time, and *that*
>> is why agile is necessary, I tune them out. When an agile enthusiast
>> puts it differently, and tells me that the process allows for
>> requirements to be gathered as needed, and acted upon as needed (almost
>> JIT requirements), then I am prepared to listen.
>>
>> The reason I say this is, in my entire career I have encountered few
>> projects where the requirements really changed through the course of the
>> work. What does happen often is that initial requirements gathering is
>> poor, feedback mechanisms suck, and it's only late in the project when
>> the correct requirement is agreed. 9 times out of 10 though, at project
>> end you can look back and say, yes, all of these requirements were known
>> at the start. In *theory*.
>>
>> I wish that Agile folks didn't refer to "changing" requirements so much.
>> That's usually an incorrect characterization. If they rather stated that
>> Agile has an adaptive process for dealing with flawed requirements
>> gathering, I'd buy that.
> 
> It happens that requirements really change. But for the development
> process changing requirements doc due to better understanding the
> real requirements and changing requirements due to real changing
> requirements has the same impact.
> 
> Arne
> 
You're absolutely correct. I acknowledge that the impact is the same.
And given that I've never seen a project using any methodology that did
a great job of classic requirements analysis at the beginning, *and* I
don't think that that can ever be fixed, I'm totally cool with a system
that adapts to this reality.

I do however wish that folks would make the distinction. Calling
something a changing requirement when it's not is a copout. Usually an
organization does benefit from a quality effort at semi-classical
initial stage requirements analysis; you don't want to hide the fact as
part of your process that you had such-and-such failures in that first
stage, by calling everything a "changed" requirement.

I have often seen where a "product owner" (in the agile sense, but not
necessarily in an agile environment) makes an early decision, and the
team builds on that decision. Later on the individual changes his mind
and makes a new decision. This frequently happens when he or she sees
the first screenshots or working product and doesn't like it, or some
individual who wasn't in on the initial decision-making gets informed
about Feature X and raises a red flag about unsuitability of approach,
or similar.

The team then makes changes based on the new decision.

To me that's not a changing requirement. What it is, is flawed and
imperfect requirements gathering. It's not the fault of the product
owner either: it's the fault of the requirements analysts and their
developer assistants to present the product owner with sufficient data
and context to make an informed and stable decision.

Having said all that, I've seen this happen so many hundreds of times
that I don't think it can be fixed. Like I said above I am totally cool
with a system that adapts better to real-world requirements gathering.
As you said, it doesn't matter *at the 11th hour* whether that 11th hour
change is caused by imperfect analysis, or by a genuine change.

AHS
-- 
...wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their
own government...
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1789

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Agile Project Management Iqra Educational Portal <iqraeducationalportal@gmail.com> - 2012-02-08 22:51 -0800
  Re: Agile Project Management Lionel <lionelv@none.com> - 2012-02-09 21:53 +1000
    Re: Agile Project Management markspace <-@.> - 2012-02-09 09:45 -0800
      Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-09 14:09 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-09 20:24 -0400
          Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:09 -0500
        Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 09:03 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2012-02-11 00:25 +0000
          Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-10 22:32 -0400
            Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-10 18:35 -0800
  Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-09 09:45 -0800
  Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-10 08:26 -0800
    Re: Agile Project Management Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-10 23:28 +0100
      Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-10 15:40 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 16:22 -0800
          Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-11 01:04 -0600
            Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 12:23 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2012-02-12 05:17 +0000
          Re: Agile Project Management Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-12 14:52 +0100
          Re: Agile Project Management Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-13 11:33 -0800
    Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:05 -0500
      Re: Agile Project Management Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-11 23:46 +0000
        Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:58 -0500
          Re: Agile Project Management Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-12 15:46 +0000
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 10:58 -0500
      Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-11 22:43 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 09:19 -0500
          Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-12 07:08 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 11:11 -0500
            Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 12:12 -0400
              Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 09:00 -0800
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 12:06 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 13:13 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 12:55 -0800
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 16:29 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 16:35 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 17:04 -0800
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 21:28 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 02:15 -0800
          Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 11:43 -0400
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 11:03 -0500
              Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 13:25 -0400
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 13:34 -0500
            Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-12 11:55 -0600
        Re: Agile Project Management eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2012-02-13 04:38 +0000
          Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-14 08:04 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-14 08:50 -0800
              Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-14 11:11 -0600
                Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-14 09:17 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 21:26 -0500

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