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Re: Agile Project Management

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On 12-02-10 08:25 PM, Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Feb 2012, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> 
>> On 2/9/2012 9:45 AM, markspace wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone want to discuss pros and cons of various software development
>>> methods? Or maybe pros and pitfalls of Agile, i.e., how to avoid
>>> doing it wrong.
>>>
>>> Also, new thread, or jack this one?
>>
>> The subject line is fine for a discussion of agile project management,
>> so I think hijack it.
>>
>> First of all, I have seen a general pattern to software development
>> methodologies:
>>
>> 1. Some people come up with an approach to software development.
>>
>> 2. A lot of books get written, and complete, detailed systems combining
>> many ideas are produced.
>>
>> 3. The detailed systems, applied completely and unintelligently, do not
>> work well.
>>
>> 4. Some of the ideas, mixed with other ideas and selected to fit the
>> project and situation, turn out to be extremely useful, and become part
>> of the essential software project toolbox.
>>
>> I've seen this pattern repeat several times, starting with "structured
>> programming" in the 1960's and 70's.
> 
> In partial defence of agile, Extreme Programming, which i think of as
> being the true, pure, form of agile, was developed in a very practical
> way, by experimentation with the process used on the Chrysler
> Comprehensive Compensation System project. It's not a case of some
> egghead attaining enlightenment through contemplating their navel and
> then writing a fat book about it.
> 
> This is not to say that it doesn't suffer from the problem of being
> applied unintelligently.
> 
> XP also has a huge Achilles' heel, in that it demands a very different
> relationship with the customer to traditional processes. If you can't
> have that kind of relationship, then you can't actually do XP, and
> whatever halfway house you settle on is going to include some pretty
> weird compromises.
> 
> But, as you say, you can definitely pull some useful features from XP to
> use in your local process. Continuous integration and automatic testing
> have pretty much carried the day, i think. I contend that small
> releases, standups, Do The Simplest Thing That Could Possibly Work,
> spikes, and the idea that the customer's motivation should always be
> obvious are all valuable to any project.
> 
> Really, what XP is about is tightening feedback loops, which has the
> effect of shortening the period where you don't know something useful.
> Continuous integration, instead of integration once a week or whatever,
> shortens the period where you don't know if your code will merge with
> your colleagues'. Automatic testing, rather than waiting for QA to come
> along and test manually, shortens the period where you don't know if
> your code does what you expected. Small releases, rather than quarterly
> or more infrequent releases, shorten the period where you don't know if
> your users like what you've done. Daily standups, rather than weekly or
> monthly all-hands meetings, or newsletters, or the grapevine, shorten
> the period where you don't know what your colleagues are doing.
> DTSTTCPW, rather than big design up front, shortens the period where you
> don't know if the code you're writing will get anywhere. Spikes, rather
> than taking designs or assumptions on faith, shorten the period where
> you don't even know if your code could possibly get anywhere. The use of
> the customer motivation practices, like on-site customer (or at least
> business analyst/product manager sitting at the desk next to you) and
> using user stories, rather than working purely from technical specs,
> shorten the period where you don't know which technical decision best
> serves the customer's interest.
> 
> That's what XP is really about. People get hung up on the provocative,
> radical, possibly misguided, technical practices, like pair programming,
> or test-driven development, but those are actually not the important
> bits. What really matters is shortening the latency between a customer
> developing a desire for a feature, and their having it in their hands,
> because that is a cast-iron way of making sure that you are building the
> right thing.
> 
> tom
> 
I agree with most of what you say, Tom, but I'll make the point that
while XP, as you state, is about tightening feedback loops, there has
likely always been a significant percentage of programmers and software
development teams who already knew that this is advantageous...well
before XP or Agile ever got tossed around as terms.

Did OO design patterns only come into existence when GOF published their
book? I think not: programmers had been using these techniques in some
shape or form since OOP got invented, except they didn't give 'em
well-known names.

I'll bet there were a whole bunch of coders, when Agile hit the streets
as a labeled methodology, who read up on it and thought to themselves,
Geez, I did s**t like that 20 or 30 years ago. You mentioned the need
for a special relationship with the customer for XP: guess what, that
special relationship exists in the absence of XP. In fact, _if_ that
special relationship obtains, *and* you have a software development team
that isn't inflexibly wedded to any particular methodology [1], many
core elements of Agile will naturally appear anyway.

I'm not against publicizing successful processes, but I don't think
there's any need for pretentious manifestos or packaged, named
"methodologies".

AHS

1. If your team lead and technical architect and PM all live and breathe
IEEE standards, well, settle in for the long haul. :-)

-- 
...wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their
own government...
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1789

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Thread

Agile Project Management Iqra Educational Portal <iqraeducationalportal@gmail.com> - 2012-02-08 22:51 -0800
  Re: Agile Project Management Lionel <lionelv@none.com> - 2012-02-09 21:53 +1000
    Re: Agile Project Management markspace <-@.> - 2012-02-09 09:45 -0800
      Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-09 14:09 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-09 20:24 -0400
          Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:09 -0500
        Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 09:03 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2012-02-11 00:25 +0000
          Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-10 22:32 -0400
            Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-10 18:35 -0800
  Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-09 09:45 -0800
  Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-10 08:26 -0800
    Re: Agile Project Management Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-10 23:28 +0100
      Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-10 15:40 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 16:22 -0800
          Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-11 01:04 -0600
            Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 12:23 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2012-02-12 05:17 +0000
          Re: Agile Project Management Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-12 14:52 +0100
          Re: Agile Project Management Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-13 11:33 -0800
    Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:05 -0500
      Re: Agile Project Management Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-11 23:46 +0000
        Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:58 -0500
          Re: Agile Project Management Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-12 15:46 +0000
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 10:58 -0500
      Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-11 22:43 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 09:19 -0500
          Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-12 07:08 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 11:11 -0500
            Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 12:12 -0400
              Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 09:00 -0800
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 12:06 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 13:13 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 12:55 -0800
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 16:29 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 16:35 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 17:04 -0800
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 21:28 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 02:15 -0800
          Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 11:43 -0400
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 11:03 -0500
              Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 13:25 -0400
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 13:34 -0500
            Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-12 11:55 -0600
        Re: Agile Project Management eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2012-02-13 04:38 +0000
          Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-14 08:04 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-14 08:50 -0800
              Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-14 11:11 -0600
                Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-14 09:17 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 21:26 -0500

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