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Re: Agile Project Management

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On 12-02-12 11:08 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 2/12/2012 1:43 AM, simplicity wrote:
>>> On Feb 11, 4:05 pm, Arne Vajhøj<a...@vajhoej.dk>  wrote:
>>>> On 2/10/2012 11:26 AM, simplicity wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 8, 11:51 pm, Iqra Educational Portal
>>>>> <iqraeducationalpor...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>> Agile software development is an iterative, incremental approach to
>>>>>> developing and releasing software. A range of agile methodologies
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> emerged and they are based frequent releases, ongoing testing,
>>>>>> customer and stakeholder participation throughout the development
>>>>>> process, co-ownership of code and pair-programming.
>>>>>> iQRA’s Agile Exam will test your knowledge about Agile Development
>>>>>> including XP, and SCRUM techniques in the light of Agile Manifesto
>>>>
>>>>>> http://iqra.org.pk/certification-startup.aspx?CertID=11&type=
>>>>
>>>>> Agile is garbage. Code before thinking.
>>>>
>>>>> All at the expense of quality but creates lots of "overhead" positions
>>>>> for largely worthless project managers of all kinds.
>>>>
>>>> Most agile processes does not specify overhead positions
>>>> and quite a few does not even include project managers.
>>>>
>>>> I think you have completely misunderstood agile.
>>>
>>> Misunderstood? I am judging from my personal experience. I was part of
>>> agile development in 3 environments: small organization (<  40 people)
>>> which was trying to implement it, mid-size and large - by large I mean
>>>> 800 employees. Each was a failure in one aspect or another. And in
>>> each, the common themes were (1) a blotted overhead, (2) questionable
>>> quality, (3) lack of architectural consistency and (4) reoccuring
>>> breaks of the old and often obscure features.
>>>
>>> Interesting that when I raised these issues (with examples) during one
>>> of the internal seminars on agile, the presented, some "big kahoona"
>>> consultant on agile, quickly diverted into a different topic
>>
>> The fact that 3 agile projects had large overhead is not
>> really an indication that large overhead is a given result
>> of agile.
> 
> I've also seen non-Agile projects with large overhead.
> 
> That said, for an 800 person project I would want strong architectural
> control to ensure clean interfaces. It is very easy for a program that
> big to get out of control and become unmaintainable.
> 
> Patricia

I don't think the OP meant ~800 person *project*.

Once we start getting into these examples I'd like to see a clear
understanding of what numbers are involved in what roles on what pieces.
I can think of examples from my own experience where a software
development team of maybe a dozen or fifteen folks (developers, team
lead, technical architect, PM, QA/QC types etc) fell into the following
slots:

1. as the only software development team in a small (<30 people) product
company;

2. as one of several similar sized teams in a ~100 person IT shop in a
small/mid-sized (several thousand people) services organization. Each
team working independently on their own IT projects;

3. As the only team working on a specific product in a large (10,000+
persons) IT company. Dozens upon dozens of other teams, many larger,
some smaller. But this team is insular and works on one thing.

In these 3 examples mentioning the size of the organization (~25, ~2000,
~25000) is irrelevant.

You're absolutely right, though, Patricia: for an 800-person *project*
you sure would want clean interfaces. Myself I don't think that adopting
agile is either going to help you or hinder you in achieving that good
architecture; either you know what you're doing or you don't.

AHS
-- 
...wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their
own government...
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1789

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Agile Project Management Iqra Educational Portal <iqraeducationalportal@gmail.com> - 2012-02-08 22:51 -0800
  Re: Agile Project Management Lionel <lionelv@none.com> - 2012-02-09 21:53 +1000
    Re: Agile Project Management markspace <-@.> - 2012-02-09 09:45 -0800
      Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-09 14:09 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-09 20:24 -0400
          Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:09 -0500
        Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 09:03 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2012-02-11 00:25 +0000
          Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-10 22:32 -0400
            Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-10 18:35 -0800
  Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-09 09:45 -0800
  Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-10 08:26 -0800
    Re: Agile Project Management Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-10 23:28 +0100
      Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-10 15:40 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 16:22 -0800
          Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-11 01:04 -0600
            Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 12:23 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2012-02-12 05:17 +0000
          Re: Agile Project Management Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-12 14:52 +0100
          Re: Agile Project Management Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-13 11:33 -0800
    Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:05 -0500
      Re: Agile Project Management Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-11 23:46 +0000
        Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:58 -0500
          Re: Agile Project Management Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-12 15:46 +0000
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 10:58 -0500
      Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-11 22:43 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 09:19 -0500
          Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-12 07:08 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 11:11 -0500
            Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 12:12 -0400
              Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 09:00 -0800
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 12:06 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 13:13 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 12:55 -0800
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 16:29 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 16:35 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 17:04 -0800
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 21:28 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 02:15 -0800
          Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 11:43 -0400
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 11:03 -0500
              Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 13:25 -0400
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 13:34 -0500
            Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-12 11:55 -0600
        Re: Agile Project Management eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2012-02-13 04:38 +0000
          Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-14 08:04 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-14 08:50 -0800
              Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-14 11:11 -0600
                Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-14 09:17 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 21:26 -0500

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