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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #11884
| Date | 2012-02-09 14:09 -0800 |
|---|---|
| From | Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.java.programmer |
| Subject | Re: Agile Project Management |
| References | <b709e52d-16d6-43a8-ab89-7bcf11abf0e2@bs8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> <4f33b3ba$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au> <jh10ms$oco$1@dont-email.me> |
| Message-ID | <ioidnTN5iLac2anSnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@earthlink.com> (permalink) |
On 2/9/2012 9:45 AM, markspace wrote: > On 2/9/2012 3:53 AM, Lionel wrote: >> Agile == hacking. >> >> lol. > > Actually, I feel the same way. But I also see a lot of folks (including > management and executives) who feel Agile is the best way to go. And > this is in Silicon Valley! > > Anyone want to discuss pros and cons of various software development > methods? Or maybe pros and pitfalls of Agile, i.e., how to avoid doing > it wrong. > > Also, new thread, or jack this one? The subject line is fine for a discussion of agile project management, so I think hijack it. First of all, I have seen a general pattern to software development methodologies: 1. Some people come up with an approach to software development. 2. A lot of books get written, and complete, detailed systems combining many ideas are produced. 3. The detailed systems, applied completely and unintelligently, do not work well. 4. Some of the ideas, mixed with other ideas and selected to fit the project and situation, turn out to be extremely useful, and become part of the essential software project toolbox. I've seen this pattern repeat several times, starting with "structured programming" in the 1960's and 70's. Given that background, I do not buy in to the idea of certification tests on XP and SCRUM, or an "agile manifesto". I do think some of the agile programming ideas are very useful in some situations. As part of my dissertation research I wrote a program that needed to change frequently in directions that were difficult to anticipate. I would run some tests, look at the results, think of some new questions, modify the program to answer the new questions, run some more tests etc. I used a combination of test driven design, simplicity, and refactoring. I did not even try to design for future change. Rather, when I had the new questions and knew what I needed next week I would refactor anything that made those changes unnecessarily difficult. I could not use pair programming because it was an individual project. I was my own customer so I definitely had continuous customer involvement. I think my approach was much more effective, for that project, than trying to anticipate what the requirements would be. I would have guessed wrong in the early stages of writing and using the program, and wasted time making the design support types of changes that were not needed. I don't care whether it was "hacking" or not. It worked. On the other hand, what worked well for a small program undergoing rapid change and fully understood by the entire (one person) programming team might not have been so good for a large program, with definite objectives. For a sufficiently large program, programmers have detailed knowledge of at most part of the program. Architectural rules, carefully reviewed design changes, and long range planning become much more important. Patricia
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Agile Project Management Iqra Educational Portal <iqraeducationalportal@gmail.com> - 2012-02-08 22:51 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Lionel <lionelv@none.com> - 2012-02-09 21:53 +1000
Re: Agile Project Management markspace <-@.> - 2012-02-09 09:45 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-09 14:09 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-09 20:24 -0400
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:09 -0500
Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 09:03 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2012-02-11 00:25 +0000
Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-10 22:32 -0400
Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-10 18:35 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-09 09:45 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-10 08:26 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-10 23:28 +0100
Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-10 15:40 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 16:22 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-11 01:04 -0600
Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 12:23 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2012-02-12 05:17 +0000
Re: Agile Project Management Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-12 14:52 +0100
Re: Agile Project Management Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-13 11:33 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:05 -0500
Re: Agile Project Management Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-11 23:46 +0000
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:58 -0500
Re: Agile Project Management Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-12 15:46 +0000
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 10:58 -0500
Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-11 22:43 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 09:19 -0500
Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-12 07:08 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 11:11 -0500
Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 12:12 -0400
Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 09:00 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 12:06 -0500
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 13:13 -0500
Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 12:55 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 16:29 -0500
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 16:35 -0500
Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 17:04 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 21:28 -0500
Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 02:15 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 11:43 -0400
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 11:03 -0500
Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 13:25 -0400
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 13:34 -0500
Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-12 11:55 -0600
Re: Agile Project Management eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2012-02-13 04:38 +0000
Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-14 08:04 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-14 08:50 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-14 11:11 -0600
Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-14 09:17 -0800
Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 21:26 -0500
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