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Re: Agile Project Management

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On 2/12/2012 10:08 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 2/12/2012 1:43 AM, simplicity wrote:
>>> On Feb 11, 4:05 pm, Arne Vajhøj<a...@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>>>> On 2/10/2012 11:26 AM, simplicity wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 8, 11:51 pm, Iqra Educational Portal
>>>>> <iqraeducationalpor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Agile software development is an iterative, incremental approach to
>>>>>> developing and releasing software. A range of agile methodologies
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> emerged and they are based frequent releases, ongoing testing,
>>>>>> customer and stakeholder participation throughout the development
>>>>>> process, co-ownership of code and pair-programming.
>>>>>> iQRA’s Agile Exam will test your knowledge about Agile Development
>>>>>> including XP, and SCRUM techniques in the light of Agile Manifesto
>>>>
>>>>>> http://iqra.org.pk/certification-startup.aspx?CertID=11&type=
>>>>
>>>>> Agile is garbage. Code before thinking.
>>>>
>>>>> All at the expense of quality but creates lots of "overhead" positions
>>>>> for largely worthless project managers of all kinds.
>>>>
>>>> Most agile processes does not specify overhead positions
>>>> and quite a few does not even include project managers.
>>>>
>>>> I think you have completely misunderstood agile.
>>>
>>> Misunderstood? I am judging from my personal experience. I was part of
>>> agile development in 3 environments: small organization (< 40 people)
>>> which was trying to implement it, mid-size and large - by large I mean
>>>> 800 employees. Each was a failure in one aspect or another. And in
>>> each, the common themes were (1) a blotted overhead, (2) questionable
>>> quality, (3) lack of architectural consistency and (4) reoccuring
>>> breaks of the old and often obscure features.
>>>
>>> Interesting that when I raised these issues (with examples) during one
>>> of the internal seminars on agile, the presented, some "big kahoona"
>>> consultant on agile, quickly diverted into a different topic
>>
>> The fact that 3 agile projects had large overhead is not
>> really an indication that large overhead is a given result
>> of agile.
>
> I've also seen non-Agile projects with large overhead.

Yep.

> That said, for an 800 person project I would want strong architectural
> control to ensure clean interfaces. It is very easy for a program that
> big to get out of control and become unmaintainable.

I was focusing on the overhead and project manager aspect
in simplicity's post.

Architecture is another story.

Some agile developers think that architecture has no place
in agile.

You disagree.

I disagree.

Fowler disagrees!

http://martinfowler.com/articles/designDead.html#GrowingAnArchitecture

For anything but a very small project an architecture is needed.

It is a prerequisite to start agile development.

Some parts of the architecture may change along the way. But that
is more a fact of life than an agile idea.

What may confuse some people to believe that they succeeded
without an architecture is when the architecture was given
and not done as part of the project because the basic
system was already in place.

Arne

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Agile Project Management Iqra Educational Portal <iqraeducationalportal@gmail.com> - 2012-02-08 22:51 -0800
  Re: Agile Project Management Lionel <lionelv@none.com> - 2012-02-09 21:53 +1000
    Re: Agile Project Management markspace <-@.> - 2012-02-09 09:45 -0800
      Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-09 14:09 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-09 20:24 -0400
          Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:09 -0500
        Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 09:03 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2012-02-11 00:25 +0000
          Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-10 22:32 -0400
            Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-10 18:35 -0800
  Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-09 09:45 -0800
  Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-10 08:26 -0800
    Re: Agile Project Management Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-10 23:28 +0100
      Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-10 15:40 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 16:22 -0800
          Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-11 01:04 -0600
            Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 12:23 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2012-02-12 05:17 +0000
          Re: Agile Project Management Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-12 14:52 +0100
          Re: Agile Project Management Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-13 11:33 -0800
    Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:05 -0500
      Re: Agile Project Management Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-11 23:46 +0000
        Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 18:58 -0500
          Re: Agile Project Management Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-12 15:46 +0000
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 10:58 -0500
      Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-11 22:43 -0800
        Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 09:19 -0500
          Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-12 07:08 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 11:11 -0500
            Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 12:12 -0400
              Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 09:00 -0800
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 12:06 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 13:13 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 12:55 -0800
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 16:29 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 16:35 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 17:04 -0800
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 21:28 -0500
                Re: Agile Project Management Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 02:15 -0800
          Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 11:43 -0400
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 11:03 -0500
              Re: Agile Project Management Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-12 13:25 -0400
                Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 13:34 -0500
            Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-12 11:55 -0600
        Re: Agile Project Management eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2012-02-13 04:38 +0000
          Re: Agile Project Management simplicity <stella_pigeon@live.ca> - 2012-02-14 08:04 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-14 08:50 -0800
              Re: Agile Project Management Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-14 11:11 -0600
                Re: Agile Project Management Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-14 09:17 -0800
            Re: Agile Project Management Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 21:26 -0500

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