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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #11016
| Date | 2012-04-08 19:09 -1000 |
|---|---|
| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
| Organization | FORTH, Inc. |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: How about helping optimization in language? |
| References | (16 earlier) <7x398knpan.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <X5OdnUk26I-hvuHSnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@supernews.com> <7xwr5qdctb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <jlsvar$j9l$1@online.de> <7xiph9bm0y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| Message-ID | <k8KdnT98oc2V8h_SnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@supernews.com> (permalink) |
On 4/8/12 5:51 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: > Bernd Paysan<bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes: >> I can understand the psychological reasoning that makes people believe >> this: The compiler can and does find a lot of bugs, in contrast to a >> Forth compiler, which essentially finds typos and mismatched control >> structures, and nothing more (not even a mismatch between stack comment >> and real stack effect). This observation leads to the wrong believe >> that the compiler finds all bugs. No, it just finds the easy ones. > > I don't think anyone is naive enough to think the compiler is guaranteed > to find all the bugs. I just observe that in Haskell, the chance that > the compiler does find all the bugs is actually pretty good. In C or > Python, when I write (say) a 30-line patch to an unfamiliar program and > start testing it after getting it to compile, I usually (not always) > find that I missed something and I have to fix the patch. If it passes > all tests the first try, that's a nice surprise. With Haskell, it > doesn't ALWAYS work the first try, but that happens rather often rather > than as a rarity. And hopefully, the chances are also lower of the > patch having some subtler bug that's undetected even after testing, but > that bites someone in the field. There's bugs and there's bugs. There are syntax errors and type errors, and just plain typos. Compilers can catch a lot of those (although some compilers I've grappled with had arbitrary rules that just caused trouble themselves). But then there's the class of bugs caused by faulty specs, flawed analysis, and just plain lame thinking. Even the best compilers aren't much good at those. :-( >> The idea that problems are inherently complex, instead of just full of >> accidental complexity, created by the inability to see clearly, and that >> you have to attack it "head on", this is really silly. Complexity is >> the enemy, complexity is what we humans can't handle, but create in our >> attempt to do so. You don't attack an enemy that strong "head on". > > I'm in possession of a 300-decimal-digit number N which is known to be > the product of two unknown primes P and Q. I'd like to tell you N and > have you tell me what P and Q are, so I can break a code and catch the > terrorists. How would you propose to find P and Q? The only feasbile > way known right now is the Distributed Number Field Sieve (DNFS), which > is a fancy algorithm based on a lot of pointy-headed abstract algebra, > plus you'll have to use a rather large computing cluster to get the > answer before the terrorists dies of old age. You'll need a bunch of > distributed computation hacking, a bunch of organizational aplomb to get > the machines without anyone noticing, etc. Maybe you want to build > custom VLSI (Bernstein's parallel NFS circuits) which will take > developing more fancy math (it's just a theoretical construction now; > getting it to actually work is probably at least a PhD topic). You > can't duck the problem or the terrorists will win--think of the > children!!! ;-) > > If N had only 100 digits you could do it on a PC with fairly simple > methods, and if it had 1000 digits it would be hopeless without > surprising new math discoveries, but this N has 300 digits, which I > think is somewhere near the outer edge of tractability with known > methods (maybe I'm off by a little). You can solve it by attacking > head-on the problem of implementing the complicated DNFS algorithm > (assuming you can't use someone else's implementation) and burning a > vast amount of CPU cycles and memory. There is no (known) clever > shortcut and it's unlikely that any exists (lots of good mathematicians > have worked hard looking for them). It's time for the head-on attack, > as far as I can tell. Your budget is X million dollars and you'll > probably need it. Good luck ;-). I am very happy to say that most programming problems aren't anything like that complex! >> If you find that most Forth programs have been written by small teams or >> just one person: Don't look at the number of lines, look at the >> functionality achieved. It is not economic to deploy a huge team if you >> can do with a lot less people. So why would anybody do if he can solve >> the problem without? > > There is functionality that can't be realistically implemented without a > large-ish team. As a mundane example, Microsoft Word or Mozilla Firefox > were written by large teams, and implement a lot of functionality that > would also have taken a large team using Forth. Saying "well, that's > not useful functionality, I'd write totally different and simpler > instead" is a Chuck Moore approach of redefining the problem, which is > great when you can get away with it (my interest in Forth is partly > because I want to get better at that). But, sometimes you just have to > do a complex task exactly as specified in all details, no redefining > allowed. That's another example of attacking complexity head-on. I once headed a team trying to save a project on which 30+ programmers had worked for 3 years generating something like a million lines of code, and the result was too slow and lacked functionality. We tossed all their code, but were held to the same spec. We started with a team of 6 which quickly grew to 8, each of whom was assigned to a particular critical subsystem. A few months later when we had the basic systems programming done (data base, network, basic message passing, etc.) we added about 10 more programmers to do the specific applications (power management, lighting systems, reports, etc.). After a total of 18 calendar months, we passed the acceptance test. Indeed, we had to meet the specs regarding what had to happen in what length of time and according to what rules, but we didn't have to follow the same internal approach or methodology, and we did quite a lot of "redefining". For example: there were ~30,000 control points, organized by building, panel, and point on the panel. There was a given point ID format, 16 characters long, for identifying them. Messages had to include a point ID, time, and value. These messages were 64 characters long. We designed a database with building/panel/point indices, from which we could identify a unique point with a 2-byte record#, and we designed an internal message format that passed all the required information in 8 bytes. Externally, all displays, reports, and other human interaction used the expanded forms, but the internal message passing was 8x faster just because of the internal design simplification. >> CCS is the largest Forth program known.... it clearly has to be said: >> The way to create big Forth programs is to stop using its strengths. > > Thanks, I had been wondering about CCS, and that description is > informative. I wonder how the development time / coder productivity > compared to hypothetically doing the same thing in (say) Python or even > Java. Not that I'm a fan of Java, don't get me wrong. I don't know much about CCS (although I once met its head, a charming guy), but that sounds like the kind of management structure that is used when what you have is a lot of relatively low-skilled coders. It can work in that environment, though I personally much prefer working with a small team of very smart professionals. Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
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How about helping optimization in language? Helmar Wodtke <helmwo@gmail.com> - 2012-03-27 07:26 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-27 09:32 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Helmar Wodtke <helmwo@gmail.com> - 2012-03-27 08:12 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-03-27 17:48 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Helmar Wodtke <helmwo@gmail.com> - 2012-03-27 09:04 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-03-28 00:42 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-27 11:34 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Helmar Wodtke <helmwo@gmail.com> - 2012-03-27 09:46 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-27 12:27 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Helmar Wodtke <helmwo@gmail.com> - 2012-03-27 11:29 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-03-27 08:40 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-27 14:12 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-03-27 12:27 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-28 03:43 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-03-28 00:41 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-28 00:12 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-28 11:17 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-28 07:35 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-28 16:31 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-03-28 22:18 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-28 12:07 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-01 22:48 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-02 04:41 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-02 17:40 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-02 15:35 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-02 19:25 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-02 20:45 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-03 00:51 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-02 22:17 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-04-03 02:32 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-04-03 20:22 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-03 11:53 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-03 09:10 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-03 14:16 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-04-05 21:27 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-03 22:27 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-03 10:45 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-04-04 10:34 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-03 00:43 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-03 03:59 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-03 20:34 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-04 05:32 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-07 22:15 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-08 04:55 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-08 15:51 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-08 11:34 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-08 13:11 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-08 23:40 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-08 15:14 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-09 09:37 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-09 19:05 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-10 10:32 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-08 23:18 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-08 20:51 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-08 19:09 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-09 21:05 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-09 21:57 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-09 17:42 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-04-09 09:34 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-09 22:37 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-10 09:39 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-10 03:12 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-10 23:11 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-10 21:18 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-11 10:00 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-10 22:12 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-10 16:24 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-10 08:34 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-04-09 10:09 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-09 21:21 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-09 19:02 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-09 16:44 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-09 20:00 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-09 17:27 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-09 20:49 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-09 18:12 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-10 10:24 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-10 03:40 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-10 04:39 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-10 03:05 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-04-10 18:13 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-10 12:02 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-10 14:36 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-10 23:01 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-11 00:51 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-10 22:18 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-11 02:45 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Paul E. Bennett" <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2012-04-11 19:47 +0100
Complexity (was: How about helping optimization in language?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-09 08:52 +0000
Re: Complexity (was: How about helping optimization in language?) Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-09 03:01 -0700
Re: Complexity Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-09 10:17 -0700
Re: Complexity "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-09 11:33 -1000
Re: Complexity "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-09 11:43 -1000
Re: Complexity (was: How about helping optimization in language?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-10 07:31 +0000
Re: Complexity (was: How about helping optimization in language?) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-09 17:08 +0200
Re: Complexity "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-09 11:21 -1000
Re: Complexity Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-09 20:30 -0700
Re: Complexity "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-09 22:19 -1000
Re: Complexity Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-10 01:48 -0700
Re: Complexity Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-10 01:28 -0700
Re: Complexity "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-09 22:48 -1000
Re: Complexity Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-10 01:51 -0700
Re: Complexity Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-04-10 20:06 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-04-09 10:24 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2012-04-09 16:18 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-09 07:23 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-04-09 15:27 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-04-04 06:51 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-04-03 09:06 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-03 16:13 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-03 12:43 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-03 10:16 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-03 13:41 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-03 11:01 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-03 22:42 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-03 21:11 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-04 01:02 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-04 05:35 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-04-04 15:01 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-06 00:08 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Jan Coombs <jan_2011-02@murray-microft.co.uk> - 2012-04-06 12:05 +0100
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-04-03 15:56 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-03 22:06 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-03 13:22 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-04 05:43 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-04 23:15 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-04 19:02 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-04 13:34 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-04-02 09:49 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-02 20:04 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-04-03 09:30 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-03 13:16 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-03 22:45 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-03 23:26 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-03 21:29 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-04 02:32 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-04 07:30 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-04-04 08:51 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-04 10:31 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-07 21:20 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-07 19:18 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-08 15:59 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-08 22:12 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-08 19:42 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-08 23:26 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-08 20:37 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201204.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-04-09 23:33 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-09 11:52 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-09 18:42 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-09 15:57 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-09 19:08 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-09 16:29 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-09 19:53 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-09 17:05 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-09 20:15 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-10 21:46 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-10 10:42 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-11 21:26 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-12 00:24 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-12 01:55 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-04-03 22:06 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-04 13:20 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-04-04 21:18 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-05 15:36 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-04-05 18:32 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 2012-04-04 04:39 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-04 02:50 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-04-03 18:07 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-04-05 11:10 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-04-05 13:21 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-05 23:26 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-05 14:49 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2012-04-06 08:58 +0100
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-06 19:07 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2012-04-07 10:07 +0100
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-07 21:18 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-04-08 07:36 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-04-08 07:56 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-04-08 07:49 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-03-28 22:06 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-31 13:38 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-02 02:10 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-01 22:32 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-04-02 09:40 +0200
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-01 21:44 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-02 01:08 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnot.cmm> - 2012-04-02 06:47 -0400
Re: How about helping optimization in language? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-02 14:38 +0000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2012-03-28 15:08 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Gary Bergstrom <g.bergstrom@ieee.org> - 2012-03-28 10:15 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-28 12:00 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? hwfwguy@gmail.com - 2012-03-29 08:52 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-29 09:33 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Helmar Wodtke <helmwo@gmail.com> - 2012-03-29 09:44 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? hwfwguy@gmail.com - 2012-03-29 20:59 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-03-30 06:09 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Helmar Wodtke <helmwo@gmail.com> - 2012-03-27 11:48 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-03-27 12:35 -1000
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-28 03:02 -0500
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Helmar Wodtke <helmwo@gmail.com> - 2012-03-28 05:03 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-03-28 20:17 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-03-29 11:43 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2012-03-27 12:22 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-28 03:24 -0700
Re: How about helping optimization in language? jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-04-08 21:56 -0700
csiph-web