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Re: polyForth multitasker question

From Alex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: polyForth multitasker question
Date 2017-04-10 09:11 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <ocfehb$467$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <ocafkt$1929$1@gioia.aioe.org> <koGdneROYv-Yg3TFnZ2dnUU7-KvNnZ2d@supernews.com> <ocehe0$19ks$1@gioia.aioe.org> <CM2dnXuhx9lfTnfFnZ2dnUU7-TfNnZ2d@supernews.com>

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On 4/10/2017 01:37, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> 
> In many applications, there's nothing wrong with letting the multitasker 
> spin when nothing's going on, because in a PC, for example, it doesn't 
> cost any extra power. 

This is not true. Modern processors & PCs, and the OSes that run on 
them, support a number of sleep states to conserve power, and spinning 
on the spot disrupts them.

> The cost is one machine instruction per task. 
> Typically putting a task to sleep is 3-4 machine instructions, and 
> waking the next one up maybe 5-6, so the whole thing is really pretty 
> efficient compared with conventional multitaskers.

Again, this is not true, and there are many good reasons why this 
primitive technique isn't used. It is horribly inefficient of power; an 
Intel chip consumes several watts, up to hundreds, on full blast, and 
fractions of that while halted. It is cripplingly disruptive of other 
processes in the system, since the spinning task is consuming a scarce 
resource to no effective end. It is highly disruptive of the overall 
functioning of the system.

Under Windows, the scheduler will keep lowering the priority of any task 
that does no more than burn CPU without returning to the OS now and 
again, as this kind of uncooperative behaviour has a serious impact on 
the responsiveness of other processes in the system.

Even returning to the OS has serious downsides. You once advocated using 
KEY? in a loop as a technique. On Windows, KEY? is several 100s of 
thousands of instructions, and systems become rapidly unresponsive in 
the face of such a pointless battering.

Exceptional circumstances aside, we're well beyond the effective use of 
spin waits now. Don't do it.

-- 
Alex

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Thread

polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-08 20:53 +1000
  Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-08 12:29 -0500
    Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-10 09:50 +1000
      Re: polyForth multitasker question David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-04-09 19:25 -0500
        Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-10 10:52 +1000
          Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-10 08:58 -0500
            Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-15 10:39 +1000
        Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-11 11:12 +1000
          Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-10 18:22 -0700
            Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-11 12:17 +1000
          Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-11 03:10 -0500
      Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-09 14:37 -1000
        Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-09 18:05 -0700
          Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-09 15:50 -1000
          Re: polyForth multitasker question Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-10 07:47 +0200
        Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-10 12:20 +1000
        Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-10 09:11 +0100
          Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-10 04:20 -0500
            Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-10 10:53 +0100
              Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-10 11:24 +0100
              Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-11 12:05 +1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-11 14:27 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-11 07:08 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-11 18:06 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-11 18:58 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-12 13:57 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-12 18:02 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-12 19:47 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-12 21:22 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-13 02:57 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-12 23:17 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-13 00:13 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-13 09:43 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-13 19:34 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-13 19:57 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 02:45 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-13 21:28 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-14 07:53 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 01:44 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-14 02:01 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 11:28 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 16:23 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-13 22:46 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-14 11:31 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 11:23 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-14 10:06 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-14 08:13 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-14 14:12 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 09:30 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-15 08:46 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 13:07 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-15 17:27 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-15 18:18 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-17 13:53 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-14 11:34 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 11:31 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 12:14 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 12:46 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 12:48 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 12:50 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-15 14:39 +0200
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 11:48 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-14 22:07 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-15 16:47 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-15 11:36 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-15 17:07 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-15 14:17 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-15 18:27 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-16 06:53 +0300
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-15 22:00 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-16 08:59 +0300
                Re: polyForth multitasker question lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 22:19 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-15 17:26 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-16 09:10 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-16 09:13 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-16 16:28 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-16 09:27 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-16 14:45 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-16 17:50 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-17 12:13 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-17 13:27 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-18 03:49 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-18 13:47 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-18 14:30 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-16 20:58 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-18 11:47 +1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-17 19:19 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-18 04:34 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 02:00 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-19 18:10 +1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 01:41 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-19 21:38 +1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-19 10:56 +0200
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-19 07:22 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-17 20:10 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-04-18 09:35 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-18 08:01 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-18 09:03 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-18 11:07 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-18 10:59 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-19 19:13 +1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-15 17:36 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-16 16:27 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-16 04:32 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-14 10:15 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-15 13:07 +0200
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-17 15:13 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 01:36 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-13 22:48 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 16:36 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 14:55 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 15:27 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-14 23:45 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-16 21:13 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-17 16:57 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-17 20:08 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 20:29 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-14 15:34 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 19:43 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 23:03 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 23:50 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 03:55 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-15 01:38 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 11:50 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question john <anon@example.com> - 2017-04-15 12:03 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-15 12:41 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 12:14 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-15 17:32 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 20:41 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-17 14:57 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 20:45 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 23:56 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-15 14:32 +0200
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 12:05 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-15 04:10 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-13 03:19 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-13 15:46 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 11:37 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-13 09:48 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-13 05:37 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-11 22:12 -0700
                Multitasking with Forth processors Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-12 07:39 +0200
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-11 22:58 -0700
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 03:00 -0400
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-12 12:18 +0200
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 17:11 -0400
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-12 13:50 -0700
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-12 13:30 -1000
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-14 12:20 +0100
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 16:47 -0400
            Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-10 07:42 -1000

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