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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #446693
| From | Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.electronics.design |
| Subject | Re: H-1B Reform |
| Date | 2017-02-07 17:01 -0500 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <o7dfvj$i40$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <efoubhFqrcqU1@mid.individual.net> <o79be6$a2l$1@dont-email.me> <efrkagFcri7U1@mid.individual.net> <o7b4nb$tle$1@dont-email.me> <efu9c5Fter0U1@mid.individual.net> |
On 02/07/2017 11:02 AM, Joerg wrote: > On 2017-02-06 16:36, rickman wrote: >> On 2/6/2017 10:51 AM, Joerg wrote: >>> On 2017-02-06 00:18, rickman wrote: >>>> On 2/5/2017 10:23 AM, Joerg wrote: >>>>> On 2017-02-04 22:52, dakupoto@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 8:12:03 PM UTC-5, Martin Riddle >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:16:27 -0800 (PST), >>>>>>> bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is going to fly like a lead balloon: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/zg8k64f >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So instead of displacing 1 american worker, they'll displace 2? >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Huh? How can a single engineer do the work of two on a consistent >>>>> basis? >>>>> The day has only 24h. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> >>>>>> That is very well said. And now more and more >>>>>> US high tech companies will try to outsource >>>>>> as many of their jobs as possible to off-shore >>>>>> sites. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> They'll do that anyhow and that's got nothing to do with H1B. >>>>> Running a >>>>> software outfit overseas is cheaper than paying for travel and housing >>>>> of someone temporarily moved over here. The pay will also be much >>>>> lower >>>>> because the cost of daily life is much lower in many countries >>>>> overseas. >>>>> Also, there can't be import tariffs on it because their work results >>>>> will flow across the borders on "singing wires". >>>>> >>>>> Raising and most of all enforcing the required wage is the perfect way >>>>> to fix H1B and I've always said that. Finally we have an >>>>> administration >>>>> that understand it. H1B is meant to haul in talent where we truly >>>>> can't >>>>> find an engineer for, not to obtain work results cheaper. The >>>>> companies >>>>> I worked for used H1B for exactly that intended purpose and they paid >>>>> beaucoup bucks for those folks in salary. >>>> >>>> The required wage for H-1B workers has always been the prevailing wage. >>>> But I seem to recall that most of the jobs being filled by this workers >>>> have not been higher paying engineering jobs. Still, enforcement has >>>> been the hard and ineffective part. >>>> >>> >>> Correct, because the bureaucrats who could have monitored this with ease >>> were asleep at the wheel. That is now likely going to change and it >>> should. >> >> Yes, the cause of every problem is somnambulist civil servants. Mostly >> likely the cause is lack of sufficient resources allocated by Congress. >> Trump and Congress can pass any law they want, but if they don't pony up >> the money to pay for enforcement.... >> > > A computer can monitor this. One method: Each H1B visa holder must agree > that their tax return info _and_ monthly bank account balances are > automatically sent over to the DOL. There, the computer crunches the > numbers. Only when the computer goes BEEEEP does anyone look into the > numbers and sends out an auditor. These people can be paid from a pot > filled by the penalties that abusing companies are slapped with. No need > to allocate anything. Simple. > >> >>> We need H1B and the law is already quite good as it is, always has been. >>> The problem is a de-facto non-enforcement of the rules in this law. I >>> have personally met people who were let go and then replaced by an H1B >>> worker. This is wrong. So we need to get back to applying H1B the way it >>> was always intended, obtaining talent which we truly cannot find in >>> America or simply do not have enough of. >> >> My cousin was one of those people. He literally trained his >> replacement. But he wouldn't report them. In the end after six months >> or so they hired him back... then laid him off again later on. Then he >> came back as a contractor getting paid much more. You have to work the >> system to your benefit. >> > > He was lucky. Others weren't so lucky. Anyhow, with the new rules that > will hopefully end soon. > >> >>>> Outsourcing has been tried for design work and it has often proved >>>> ineffective. The examples I have been witness to failed because of a >>>> lack of communication where written requirements didn't fully capture >>>> what was needed in a design and there were no design reviews involving >>>> the US company. The result was a product that met spec, but didn't >>>> provide what was really needed. >>>> >>> >>> True, and it can lead to the whole project being outsourced because then >>> there are less disconnects. Or is can result in failure. >> >> You mean disband the company and start again as an Indian start up? >> > > Some outsource whole projects offshore and it doesn't matter much > whether they start something knew there or use an existing contracting > house. It can work but with intricate projects it can seriously > backfire. I know some examples where it did. > >> >>>> I know when I have worked in companies producing products for a >>>> competitive marketplace, there was *lots* of interaction between all >>>> the >>>> departments involved. It would have been very hard to produce a >>>> product >>>> other than what was intended by the marketing group. >>>> >>> >>> Marketing-driven businesses can be a problem though. I have seen some. >>> Mostly because marketing folks often think too short term and most of >>> all in a reaction-mode. "Oh, we just saw the competition has an XYZ >>> wombombulator function so we absolutely need that by this coming trade >>> show". I am quite glad to not be exposed to this all that much anymore. >>> My current clients operate in true visionary mode. >> >> "Marketing driven" is a term that means just what you want it to mean. A >> company needs marketing and if the engineering department fails to >> negotiate the requirements and/or fails to meet those requirements, then >> where are they? Customers will buy what they want and if you don't give >> it to them, you won't be designing anything in the future. >> > > What I meant by that is what I saw a lot over my career: Sales and > marketing folks are very much in an "instant gratification" mode, they > do not think very long term. Engineers usually do. What this resulted in > is that good engineering ideas withered because marketing demanded that > 100% of the available manpower was spent on existing product design > improvements. I know quite well how marketing folks think because I > married my very first contact with a marketing department :-) > Your sales resistance is obviously low. ;) Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
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H-1B Reform bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-01-31 08:16 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-01-31 09:15 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Martin Riddle <martin_rid@verizon.net> - 2017-01-31 20:11 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-01-31 22:49 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform dakupoto@gmail.com - 2017-02-04 22:52 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-05 07:23 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-05 18:02 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:27 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-06 20:26 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 07:49 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 12:18 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 10:02 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 20:21 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:08 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 12:28 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 10:05 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:13 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:16 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:13 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:19 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-08 13:42 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:06 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 03:18 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:17 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:51 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform makolber@yahoo.com - 2017-02-06 10:08 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:11 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 12:53 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:22 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:36 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-08 17:20 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:14 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 19:36 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 08:02 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-07 17:01 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 20:33 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:18 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:02 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 14:36 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 21:12 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:42 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-09 11:02 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 10:36 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 14:34 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:27 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 15:33 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:40 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 17:58 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 17:10 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 09:24 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 18:05 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:18 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:41 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:31 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 22:05 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 14:56 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 10:32 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-02-05 19:15 +0100
Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 23:06 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:24 -0800
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