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Groups > de.alt.folklore.computer > #44523
| From | Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | de.alt.folklore.computer |
| Subject | Re: Triumph of the Nerds |
| Date | 2024-05-06 13:04 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <l9rrpkF91ndU2@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (10 earlier) <v14u0g.4hk.1@stefan.msgid.phost.de> <l9p8fuFrft6U1@mid.individual.net> <slrnv3f42j.16usm.hjp-usenet4@trintignant.hjp.at> <l9q1h8Fj2mU1@mid.individual.net> <slrnv3fovi.17r33.hjp-usenet4@trintignant.hjp.at> |
Peter J. Holzer, 2024-05-05 21:54:
> On 2024-05-05 18:30, poc@pocnet.net <poc@pocnet.net> wrote:
[...]
>> -v, bitte. Was ist (ein) ORM?
>
> Object-Relational-Mapping. Ein System, das es dem Programmierer
> erlaubt, objektorientierten Code in seiner Applikations-Sprache (Java,
> Perl, Python, JavaScript, Go, ...) zu schreiben und im Hintergrund wird
> automatisch SQL generiert und ausgeführt. Bekannte Beispiele sind z.B.
> Hibernate für Java, DBIx::Class für Perl, Django[1] für Python, GORM für
> Go, ...
... Doctrine, Propel, Laravel[2]. Implementierungen gibt es wohl für
jede Sprache, die ein Konzept von Klassen kennt.
[...]
> Problem dabei ist, dass "der Programmierer muss nicht SQL schreiben"
> oft als "der Programmierer muss keine Ahnung von relationalen
> Datenbanken haben" missverstanden wird. Und wenn man keine Ahnung von
> relationalen Datenbanken hat, wird man keinen effizienten Code
> schreiben (selbst wenn man Ahnung hat, ist nicht immer offensichtlich,
> welche Methoden man in welcher Reihenfolge aufrufen muss, damit am Ende
> effizientes SQL herauskommt).
ACK. Wobei "ORM" durchaus auch verstanden sein sollte. Ich hatte mal den
Fall, dass ein Team lange vor mir eine Anwendung gebaut hat, die
Strukturen wie diese hatte:
Person {
Int id;
String name;
}
Document {
Int id;
String name
};
DocumentRelation {
Int idPatient;
Int idPerson;
}
Dazu kam noch, dass die Relation Person zu Dokument 1:n war und die
Möglichkeit, dass ein Dokument auch mehreren Personen zugewordnet werden
konnte, rein sachlich falsch war. Dass die ORM-Bibliothek aber sowohl
1:1 wie auch 1:n, n:1 oder n:m in allen Varianten abbilden konnte, war
den damals verantwortlichen Leuten, die das implementiert hatten, wohl
schlicht komplett unklar. Die korrekte Lösung war dann sinngemäß sowas:
Person {
Int id;
String name;
Document documents[];
}
Document {
Int id;
Person person;
String name
};
Fazit: nein, Tools alleine reichen nie aus, man muss auch wissen, wie
man damit umgeht.
> [1] Django ist ein komplettes Framework für Web-Entwicklung. Das ORM ist
> nur ein Teil davon.
[2] Laravel ist ein komplettes Framework für Web-Entwicklung. Das ORM
ist nur ein Teil davon ;-)
--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de
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Triumph of the Nerds Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2024-04-06 09:37 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Michael Pachta <mipani@gmx.de> - 2024-04-06 10:06 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2024-04-06 11:37 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Kay Martinen <usenet@martinen.de> - 2024-04-06 11:14 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2024-04-06 11:39 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-04-08 12:27 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2024-04-08 13:33 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Sebastian Barthel <naitsabes@freenet.de> - 2024-04-17 17:33 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2024-04-18 08:46 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-04-18 19:41 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-04-19 18:44 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Kay Martinen <usenet@martinen.de> - 2024-04-20 22:34 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-04-21 17:18 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "F. W." <me@home.invalid> - 2024-04-24 07:41 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Dennis Grevenstein <dennis.grevenstein@gmail.com> - 2024-04-24 08:49 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "F. W." <me@home.invalid> - 2024-04-24 11:38 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Michael Kraemer <m.kraemer@gsi.de> - 2024-04-24 16:28 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-04-24 18:55 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-04-24 20:53 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "F. W." <me@home.invalid> - 2024-04-30 13:33 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Sebastian Barthel <naitsabes@freenet.de> - 2024-04-30 13:11 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-01 11:15 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Sebastian Barthel <naitsabes@freenet.de> - 2024-05-02 18:49 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-02 21:14 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-02 21:16 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-03 07:46 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-03 20:21 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-03 22:03 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-04 07:14 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Michael Kraemer <m.kraemer@gsi.de> - 2024-05-04 09:37 +0200
C (was: Triumph of the Nerds) "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-04 11:23 +0200
Re: C Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-04 13:17 +0200
Re: C Michael Kraemer <m.kraemer@gsi.de> - 2024-05-04 14:47 +0200
Re: C Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-05 16:43 +0200
Re: C Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-06 09:41 +0200
Re: C "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-05 02:08 +0200
Re: C Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-05 16:41 +0200
Re: C Ralf Damaschke <rwspam@gmx.de> - 2024-05-05 16:02 +0000
Re: C Ralf Damaschke <rwspam@gmx.de> - 2024-05-05 23:47 +0000
Re: C "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-05 19:55 +0200
Re: C Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-06 09:50 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-04 11:26 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-04 10:01 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-04 12:19 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-05 16:47 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-04 13:20 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-04 09:09 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-04 11:23 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-05 10:16 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-05 16:18 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-06 18:41 +0200
Pascal (was: Triumph of the Nerds) "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-06 19:55 +0200
Re: Pascal Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-07 06:40 +0200
Re: Pascal "F. W." <me@home.invalid> - 2024-05-07 07:48 +0200
Re: Pascal Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-07 08:26 +0200
Re: Pascal Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-07 13:04 +0200
Re: Pascal Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-07 14:57 +0200
Re: Pascal Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-07 13:11 +0000
Re: Pascal Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-07 13:55 +0000
Re: Pascal "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-08 21:33 +0200
Re: Pascal Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-09 07:42 +0000
Re: Pascal Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-09 12:09 +0200
Re: Pascal Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-09 12:37 +0200
Re: Pascal Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-09 12:42 +0200
Re: Pascal Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2024-05-12 11:36 +0200
Re: Pascal Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-12 13:42 +0000
Re: Pascal Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2024-05-12 19:19 +0200
Re: Pascal Andreas Karrer <ak-4a@gmx.ch> - 2024-05-12 21:39 +0000
Re: Pascal "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-09 16:09 +0200
Re: Pascal Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-09 17:49 +0200
Re: Pascal Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-12 20:56 +0200
Re: Pascal Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-12 19:46 +0000
Re: Pascal Peter Müller <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-05-12 22:00 +0200
Re: Pascal Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-07 18:16 +0200
Re: Pascal "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-08 20:20 +0200
Re: Pascal Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-12 21:13 +0200
Re: Pascal Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-13 10:39 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-07 09:20 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-07 18:03 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-08 04:13 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-08 12:01 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Kay Martinen <usenet@martinen.de> - 2024-05-13 01:54 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-13 10:51 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-13 13:45 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-13 14:04 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-13 17:23 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-05 11:22 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-05 15:57 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-05 18:30 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-05 21:54 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-06 13:04 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-06 11:45 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-06 20:53 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-07 08:42 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-07 21:56 +0000
Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen (was: Triumph of the Nerds) "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-08 21:06 +0200
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen (was: Triumph of the Nerds) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-09 07:31 +0000
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-09 10:12 +0200
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-09 13:03 +0000
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-09 16:03 +0200
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-09 16:57 +0200
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-09 17:36 +0200
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-09 18:52 +0200
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-10 03:49 +0200
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-09 19:22 +0200
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-10 04:07 +0200
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-09 17:00 +0000
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-09 20:25 +0200
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-09 20:55 +0000
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-09 23:53 +0200
Re: Accidental Complexity von Programmiersprachen Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-10 04:26 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-08 20:53 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-08 20:09 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-06 12:50 +0200
Yoda expressions (was: Triumph of the Nerds) "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-06 19:39 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-06 14:16 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-06 19:04 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-05 16:28 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-05 18:33 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-06 13:09 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-06 21:01 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-08 20:01 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-08 20:15 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-09 12:18 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-09 16:36 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-05 16:37 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-05 19:51 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Peter Heitzer" <peter.heitzer@rz.uni-regensburg.de> - 2024-05-06 07:41 +0000
C (was: Triumph of the Nerds) "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-06 19:13 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-06 09:58 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-06 10:34 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-06 14:00 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-05 19:57 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-06 12:06 +0000
C (was: Triumph of the Nerds) "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-06 19:29 +0200
Re: C Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-07 06:49 +0200
Re: C Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-07 06:30 +0000
Re: C Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-07 09:42 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-06 18:55 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-06 21:03 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-07 06:32 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-07 09:44 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-07 08:26 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-07 18:13 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Klix <wotokl@web.de> - 2024-05-07 21:50 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-07 21:49 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-07 22:16 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-07 22:10 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-08 08:40 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-08 14:19 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-08 15:14 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-08 18:16 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-08 17:30 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-09 12:20 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-09 12:19 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-09 17:52 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-09 16:43 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-09 16:48 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-09 16:40 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-09 14:26 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-09 16:38 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2024-05-12 21:09 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-02 19:46 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Sebastian Barthel <naitsabes@freenet.de> - 2024-05-02 18:44 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-03 22:09 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Christian Corti <use@reply.to> - 2024-05-06 12:58 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-06 15:07 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-06 21:06 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-04-30 17:40 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-01 07:17 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-01 09:10 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-01 11:40 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-01 12:18 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-01 20:44 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "F. W." <me@home.invalid> - 2024-05-02 07:31 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Dennis Grevenstein <dennis.grevenstein@gmail.com> - 2024-05-02 05:54 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "F. W." <me@home.invalid> - 2024-05-03 09:25 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-03 08:35 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "F. W." <me@home.invalid> - 2024-05-03 11:20 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-03 22:13 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-03 21:14 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "F. W." <me@home.invalid> - 2024-05-06 07:48 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-03 22:12 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "F. W." <me@home.invalid> - 2024-05-06 07:49 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Markus Elsken <markus.elsken@ewetel.net> - 2024-05-06 23:53 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-07 06:34 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Markus Elsken <markus.elsken@ewetel.net> - 2024-05-07 22:48 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-05-08 06:35 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Markus Elsken <markus.elsken@ewetel.net> - 2024-05-09 15:37 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2024-05-09 22:53 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Markus Elsken <markus.elsken@ewetel.net> - 2024-05-10 01:05 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-07 16:09 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-02 19:31 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-02 19:50 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-01 11:07 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-04-24 09:08 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "F. W." <me@home.invalid> - 2024-04-24 11:40 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-04-24 17:31 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-04-24 20:57 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-04-25 10:04 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-04-25 08:59 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Dennis Grevenstein <dennis.grevenstein@gmail.com> - 2024-04-25 11:52 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Gerald E¡scher <Spamer@fahr-zur-Hoelle.org> - 2024-04-25 14:47 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2024-04-25 18:59 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2024-04-26 15:38 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-07 07:13 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Gerald E¡scher <Spamer@fahr-zur-Hoelle.org> - 2024-04-26 13:04 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Kay Martinen <usenet@martinen.de> - 2024-05-15 19:45 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-04-27 10:42 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Dennis Grevenstein <dennis.grevenstein@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 13:18 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Sebastian Barthel <naitsabes@freenet.de> - 2024-04-30 13:25 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Dennis Grevenstein <dennis.grevenstein@gmail.com> - 2024-04-30 14:40 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Sebastian Barthel <naitsabes@freenet.de> - 2024-05-02 19:01 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Dennis Grevenstein <dennis.grevenstein@gmail.com> - 2024-05-02 20:18 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Sebastian Barthel <naitsabes@freenet.de> - 2024-05-03 22:46 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Dennis Grevenstein <dennis.grevenstein@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 02:02 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Kay Martinen <usenet@martinen.de> - 2024-04-28 01:40 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-04-29 06:26 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-04-29 16:11 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-04-30 11:32 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-04-30 11:13 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Sebastian Barthel <naitsabes@freenet.de> - 2024-04-30 13:33 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Klix <wotokl@web.de> - 2024-04-30 16:30 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Klix <wotokl@web.de> - 2024-04-30 16:46 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Sebastian Barthel <naitsabes@freenet.de> - 2024-05-02 19:16 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Christian Corti <use@reply.to> - 2024-05-06 13:07 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-06 16:03 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Christian Corti <use@reply.to> - 2024-05-06 18:10 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Klix <wotokl@web.de> - 2024-05-06 21:53 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-06 21:08 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Guido Grohmann <guido.grohmann@gmx.de> - 2024-05-07 06:59 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-07 08:28 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-07 16:10 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-07 22:15 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2024-05-08 08:42 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Guido Grohmann <guido.grohmann@gmx.de> - 2024-05-07 16:51 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-07 17:42 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2024-04-30 15:10 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-04-30 19:08 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2024-05-01 08:15 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-01 11:49 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-01 11:46 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Sebastian Barthel <naitsabes@freenet.de> - 2024-04-30 13:34 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-04-30 18:34 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds poc@pocnet.net - 2024-05-01 11:50 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2024-04-24 16:59 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Chr. Maercker" <Zweistein@gmx-topmail.de> - 2024-04-28 19:35 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-04-28 20:24 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Chr. Maercker" <Zweistein@gmx-topmail.de> - 2024-04-28 23:26 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Sebastian Barthel <naitsabes@freenet.de> - 2024-04-30 13:43 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Chr. Maercker" <Zweistein@gmx-topmail.de> - 2024-05-02 20:07 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-02 20:48 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Chr. Maercker" <Zweistein@gmx-topmail.de> - 2024-05-03 23:15 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2024-05-04 10:00 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet4@hjp.at> - 2024-05-04 11:33 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Kay Martinen <usenet@martinen.de> - 2024-05-15 15:14 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-04-29 13:21 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2024-04-30 07:33 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2024-04-30 17:55 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Sebastian Barthel <naitsabes@freenet.de> - 2024-04-30 13:54 +0000
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2024-04-30 22:57 +0200
Re: Triumph of the Nerds Kay Martinen <usenet@martinen.de> - 2024-05-15 15:32 +0200
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