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Groups > sci.physics > #535836
| From | benj <none@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics |
| Subject | Re: long antenna |
| References | (8 earlier) <ru3kic-ul2.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <n37rf3$12p$1@speranza.aioe.org> <l69kic-a73.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <n389sn$8v6$1@speranza.aioe.org> <1ookic-uq4.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| Message-ID | <jdR5y.141900$WF.27264@fx30.iad> (permalink) |
| Organization | TeraNews.com |
| Date | 2015-11-26 23:45 -0500 |
On 11/26/2015 08:37 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 11/26/2015 3:12 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>> gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/26/2015 1:42 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>> gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/24/2015 4:58 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>> gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2015 2:04 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On November 17, Timo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> The idea that making an antenna longer makes it work better comes from
>>>>>>>>>>>> AM radios and car whips where the antenna is much much shorter than
>>>>>>>>>>>> wavelength and in that case making it longer often DOES make it work
>>>>>>>>>>>> better.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It can help, even when the antenna is larger than the wavelength:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_Observatory
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Comparing dish vs. wire antenna, is apples vs. oranges.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But typically one wants to pay more attention to design than just
>>>>>>>>>>> "long extension wire".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> More dish area will collect more signal power, but
>>>>>>>>>> apparently this doesn't apply to a wire.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A dish doesn't collect anything, it concentrates energy to a point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrong again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a dish is a reflector which changes signal phase over an area, where it
>>>>>>>> adds in phase is called the focus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And the focal point is where the energy is concentrated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrong, it is where the signals add in phase.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is the energy density in the region of the focus with no reflector?
>>>>>
>>>>> What is the energy density in the region of the focus with a reflector?
>>>>
>>>> you ask for energy density w/wo reflector. you can find that on google.
>>>
>>> Nope. It depends on the ERP of the transmitting station and the propagation
>>> characteristics between the two points.
>>
>> you over complicate it, no need for transmitting station foo foo or
>> probagation losses bla bla.
>>
>> Hint: What is energy density "ratio", w/wo reflector. (assume dipole if
>> you must)
>
> Yet again you show you haven't a clue what is going on.
>
>
>>> Normalize it for analysis, if you know what that means.
>>>
>>>> What size and type of reflector ?
>>>
>>> Any size and any type; pick one.
>>
>> again you forget frequency,
>> Frequency 60 Hz, reflector=dish, gain 20 DBi,
>> you calculate Dish size
>
> Yet again you show you haven't a clue what is going on.
>
>>>> what shape is the reflector required to have and why ?
>>>
>>> Any rational shape you desire.
>>
>> no! shape parabolic, go study equations, they are not hard, I cannot do
>> this for you.
>
> Yet again you show you haven't a clue what is going on.
>
>>>
>>>> in terms of signal travel time or phase ?
>>>
>>
>>>
>>>> Did you know you can make a flat C band "reflector" out of different
>>>> length beer cans ? All the cans do is reflect and change the phase do
>>>> to length.
>>>
>>> It is not a reflector, it is a horn.
>>
>> not a horn, again you eyes play tricks on you brain.
>> the reflector is made up of about 200 beer cans, attached together and
>> mostly flat, like a freznel lens. Cans are cut to length for the phase
>> change needed. but this is beyond your experience, sorry.
>
> Yet again you show you haven't a clue what is going on.
>
>>> FYI people have been making horn feeds from various cans for well over
>>> 60 years now.
>>
>> feed horns, not reflectors. I had a modified paint can feed horn tuned
>> to 1.4 to 1.6 GHz with a VSWR of 1.05 a long time ago.
>
> Yet again you show you haven't a clue what is going on.
>
>>
>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parabolic_antenna
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, get a copy of the ARRL handbook and read it.
>>>>
>>>> no need to.
>>>
>>>
>>> You didn't read the Wiki link either, did you, or you wouldn't have
>>> posted the babbling gibberish below.
>>
>> wiki worse than amatuer ARRL.
>
> Both are far better than you word salad babble.
>
>>>>>
>>>>>> you thinking magnifying lens as in optics,
>>>>>> like when you were burning ants on sidewalk
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it is not that way in RF or Microwave.
>>>>>
>>>>> Light, RF, and microwave are ALL electromagnetic radiation.
>>
>>>> the solutions are vastly different in the bands. Gamma? X-ray ?
>>>> Parabolic antennas are phase changers, from 700MHz to 40GHz.
>>>> does your parabolic work on gamma ? or 200GHz ?
>>>
>>> Babbling gibberish.
>>>
>>> Whether of not a parabolic antenna works or not is purely a function
>>> of it's size in wavelengths.
>>
>> wrong again, how do you make it work on Gamma rays ? or x-rays ?
>> or 60 Hz ?
>
> Yet again you show you haven't a clue what is going on.
>
>> try to be specific and provide answers, instead of the red herring
>> clue-less bone throwing
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> "concentrate" is what they do to Orange Juice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> concentrate verb
>>
>>>>>>> to bring or come together in a large number or amount in one particular
>>>>>>> area
>>
>>>>>>> Again, get a copy of the ARRL handbook and stop being so ignorant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you base you knowledge on an out of date, stale, amateurish, Amateur
>>>>>> Radio book
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope, but if YOU were to read the 2015 edition, you might lose some
>>>>> of your ignorance about the basics of RF, such as light and microwaves
>>>>> being different and what a reflector in an antenna system does.
>>>>
>>>> forget ARRL, that is kindagarden,
>>>
>>> Then you must be pre-school.
>>>
>>>> move to "Antennas" by Kraus immediatly, then read "Antennas for all
>>>> Applications" by Kraus, then read "Radio Astronomy" by Kraus
>>>> seems like some should be online, public domain stuff.
>>>
>>> I actually have a job and buy books.
>>
>> ok, you got Kraus in you libarary ? (any of them?)
>
> Did you mean to say, "do you have Kraus in your library?"
>
> If so, yes, and many others, but that doesn't fix your ignorance
> of RF.
Hey, Gilber34, I actually studied under Kraus himself! What did you
study? Not much as far as I can tell. Sorry but I have to side with jimp
here. You haven't a clue.
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long antenna RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-17 10:42 -0800
Re: long antenna Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 12:46 -0600
Re: long antenna Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 20:10 +0100
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-17 20:28 +0000
Re: long antenna benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 16:59 -0500
Re: long antenna Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-18 22:56 +0100
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-18 16:57 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-18 23:15 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-18 20:42 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-19 05:29 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-19 08:54 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-19 18:44 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-22 15:32 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-22 23:16 +0000
Re: long antenna HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 06:59 -0800
Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 20:02 -0500
Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 01:36 -0500
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-17 13:28 -0600
Re: long antenna "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 14:04 -0800
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-17 22:35 +0000
Re: long antenna benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 19:28 -0500
Re: long antenna Timo <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-11-17 17:18 -0800
Re: long antenna RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-24 11:39 -0800
Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 15:12 -0500
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 09:21 -0600
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 10:05 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-26 20:05 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 18:39 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-27 01:46 +0000
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-26 19:55 +0000
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-24 20:04 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-24 16:33 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-24 22:58 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 09:11 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-26 19:42 +0000
Re: long antenna "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-26 11:57 -0800
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 14:52 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-26 21:12 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 18:58 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-27 01:37 +0000
Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-26 23:45 -0500
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-27 01:01 -0600
Re: long antenna "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-26 23:31 -0800
Re: long antenna benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-11-27 11:34 -0500
Re: long antenna "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-27 09:58 -0800
Re: long antenna benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-11-27 11:46 -0500
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-28 16:42 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-28 22:58 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-30 07:46 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-30 19:01 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-30 14:12 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-30 20:43 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-30 17:41 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-12-01 00:15 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-30 20:23 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-12-01 06:21 +0000
Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-30 15:22 -0500
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-30 20:48 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-30 17:16 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-30 23:52 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-30 19:59 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-12-01 02:16 +0000
Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-30 19:20 -0500
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-27 18:53 +0000
Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 00:08 -0500
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-25 06:13 +0000
Re: long antenna "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-18 16:25 -0800
Re: long antenna "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 16:08 -0800
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-20 00:40 +0000
Re: long antenna "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 15:51 -0800
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-21 00:34 +0000
Re: long antenna jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-21 14:37 +0000
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-21 19:32 +0000
Re: long antenna jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-22 14:50 +0000
Re: long antenna "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 11:27 -0800
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-22 19:44 +0000
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-22 19:40 +0000
Re: long antenna jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-23 14:13 +0000
Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 13:00 -0500
Re: long antenna jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-24 13:20 +0000
Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 13:40 -0500
Re: long antenna jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-25 13:44 +0000
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-23 18:47 +0000
Re: long antenna jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-24 13:20 +0000
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-24 19:49 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-24 16:36 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-24 23:00 +0000
Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 16:17 -0600
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-26 23:35 +0000
Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 20:58 -0500
Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 20:09 -0500
Re: long antenna "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 12:51 -0800
Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 00:01 -0500
Re: long antenna "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 15:36 -0800
Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-25 23:51 +0000
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