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Re: polyForth multitasker question

Subject Re: polyForth multitasker question
References (9 earlier) <2017Apr15.184706@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <z8qdnbfkl5j6D2_FnZ2dnUU7-YXNnZ2d@supernews.com> <2017Apr16.182810@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <rvqdnRuRWN8PWG7FnZ2dnUU7-cHNnZ2d@supernews.com> <87y3v0do1s.fsf@nightsong.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
From "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com>
Organization FORTH, Inc.
Date 2017-04-16 17:50 -1000
Message-ID <P62dnRa426APpmnFnZ2dnUU7-YPNnZ2d@supernews.com> (permalink)

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On 4/16/17 11:45 AM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes:
>> How many different concurrent timings can you have running on this
>> clock? And when one times out, how many instructions does it take to
>> decide which task to wake up?
>
> It's usually enough to have just one timer, which you set to wake up
> when the next task is due to run.  On the wakeup, you run that task and
> also figure out when the next task is due to run, and reset the timer.
> The usual algorithm for that might take 50-100 cycles (log n + some
> overhead) even if the number of tasks is quite large.  In the 1 mhz 6502
> era that might have hurt.  In the 100+ mhz Cortex era it's probably ok.

That sounds like a time-slicing algorithm. The ones I'm familiar with 
are complete asynchronous, event-driven operations. A terminal task is 
asleep until someone types some commands and presses the RETURN key, 
then it processes them. A data acquisition task may have no terminal at 
all, but has an interrupt routine that samples data ever 10 ms. and puts 
it in a circular queue; the task runs when it gets the CPU, processing 
whatever samples have come in and storing them on disk. A communications 
task responds to whatever streams come in on the port it's responsible 
for, storing the data or perhaps even transmitting it to another 
destination. Each has its own completely different timing needs, which 
it alone controls. These kinds of applications don't need or benefit 
from a central scheduler. They can be made to run that way, but not 
efficiently.

>> Caches are mostly a contemporary PC thing, (mostly beyond the
>> polyFORTH era). We're mainly talking embedded systems here.
>
> True.
>
>>> MS-DOS and MS Windows were not multi-user systems.
>> Exactly. polyFORTH was.
>
> Certainly there were even older and slower multi-user systems: Unix
> started on the PDP-11, for example.

Yes.

>> FORTH, Inc. focuses on the desktop as a development station for
>> embedded applications. Forth's advantages there remain enormous. ...
>> I think none of us (companies and users) have made a sufficient effort
>> to tell the story of the advantages Forth has, the positive aspects.
>
> For my own interests (recreation and trying to exercise a minimalist
> programming mindset that's useful in other areas) I'm not too worried
> about the productivity advantages, important for commercial dev
> environments, that Forth might or might not have.  But even after
> messing with Forth for a number of years now, I'm still not convinced
> those advantages are really there.  However, I haven't yet used it for
> embedded stuff, which is its strongest area these days.

I think it's really hard to learn Forth when you don't have a real 
application to work on. Many of the programmers I've taught have been 
hired to maintain an application that exists or is in development. That 
way they have examples of how various components work together. 
SwiftForth and SwiftX come with some sample programs, which are worthy 
of study as example, and probably would benefit from having more.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
Elizabeth D. Rather
FORTH, Inc.
6080 Center Drive, Suite 600
Los Angeles, CA  90045
USA

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polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-08 20:53 +1000
  Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-08 12:29 -0500
    Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-10 09:50 +1000
      Re: polyForth multitasker question David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-04-09 19:25 -0500
        Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-10 10:52 +1000
          Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-10 08:58 -0500
            Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-15 10:39 +1000
        Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-11 11:12 +1000
          Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-10 18:22 -0700
            Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-11 12:17 +1000
          Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-11 03:10 -0500
      Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-09 14:37 -1000
        Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-09 18:05 -0700
          Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-09 15:50 -1000
          Re: polyForth multitasker question Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-10 07:47 +0200
        Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-10 12:20 +1000
        Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-10 09:11 +0100
          Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-10 04:20 -0500
            Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-10 10:53 +0100
              Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-10 11:24 +0100
              Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-11 12:05 +1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-11 14:27 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-11 07:08 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-11 18:06 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-11 18:58 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-12 13:57 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-12 18:02 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-12 19:47 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-12 21:22 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-13 02:57 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-12 23:17 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-13 00:13 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-13 09:43 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-13 19:34 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-13 19:57 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 02:45 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-13 21:28 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-14 07:53 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 01:44 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-14 02:01 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 11:28 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 16:23 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-13 22:46 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-14 11:31 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 11:23 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-14 10:06 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-14 08:13 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-14 14:12 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 09:30 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-15 08:46 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 13:07 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-15 17:27 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-15 18:18 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-17 13:53 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-14 11:34 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 11:31 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 12:14 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 12:46 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 12:48 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 12:50 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-15 14:39 +0200
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 11:48 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-14 22:07 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-15 16:47 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-15 11:36 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-15 17:07 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-15 14:17 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-15 18:27 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-16 06:53 +0300
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-15 22:00 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-16 08:59 +0300
                Re: polyForth multitasker question lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 22:19 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-15 17:26 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-16 09:10 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-16 09:13 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-16 16:28 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-16 09:27 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-16 14:45 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-16 17:50 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-17 12:13 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-17 13:27 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-18 03:49 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-18 13:47 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-18 14:30 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-16 20:58 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-18 11:47 +1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-17 19:19 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-18 04:34 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 02:00 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-19 18:10 +1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 01:41 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-19 21:38 +1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-19 10:56 +0200
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-19 07:22 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-17 20:10 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-04-18 09:35 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-18 08:01 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-18 09:03 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-18 11:07 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-18 10:59 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-19 19:13 +1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-15 17:36 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-16 16:27 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-16 04:32 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-14 10:15 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-15 13:07 +0200
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-17 15:13 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 01:36 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-13 22:48 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 16:36 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 14:55 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 15:27 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-14 23:45 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-16 21:13 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-17 16:57 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-17 20:08 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 20:29 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-14 15:34 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 19:43 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 23:03 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-14 23:50 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 03:55 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-15 01:38 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 11:50 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question john <anon@example.com> - 2017-04-15 12:03 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-15 12:41 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 12:14 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-15 17:32 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 20:41 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-17 14:57 +0000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 20:45 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 23:56 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-15 14:32 +0200
                Re: polyForth multitasker question rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 12:05 -0400
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-15 04:10 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-13 03:19 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-13 15:46 +0100
                Re: polyForth multitasker question foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-14 11:37 -0700
                Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-13 09:48 -1000
                Re: polyForth multitasker question Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-13 05:37 -0500
                Re: polyForth multitasker question minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-11 22:12 -0700
                Multitasking with Forth processors Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-12 07:39 +0200
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-11 22:58 -0700
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 03:00 -0400
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-12 12:18 +0200
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 17:11 -0400
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-12 13:50 -0700
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-12 13:30 -1000
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-14 12:20 +0100
                Re: Multitasking with Forth processors rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 16:47 -0400
            Re: polyForth multitasker question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-10 07:42 -1000

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