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Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same?

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On 11/15/2025 2:20 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 11/15/2025 4:10 PM, wij wrote:
>> On Sat, 2025-11-15 at 15:40 -0600, olcott wrote:
>>> On 11/15/2025 3:11 PM, wij wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 2025-11-15 at 20:36 +0000, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-11-15, wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> typedef int (*ptr)();
>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> int D()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>      int Halt_Status = H(D);
>>>>>>      if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>        HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>      return Halt_Status;
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>      H(D);
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Recently, olcott constantly pushes: "...the simulated D cannot 
>>>>>> reach its own simulated
>>>>>> "return"
>>>>>> statement..."
>>>>>> But olcott cannot answer the question (very funny): Are the H(D) 
>>>>>> in main and the H(D) in D the
>>>>>> same?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mathematically, they are the same and must be.
>>>>>
>>>>> In his C code, he has put in hacks to try to make them different.
>>>>>
>>>>> The first H invoked from main calls a routine to allocate and 
>>>>> initialize
>>>>> a new simulation, along with a trace buffer for execution traces.
>>>>>
>>>>> That trace buffer is static/shared; it is allocated only once.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hhen the trace buffer is allocated, that function returns 1 to the
>>>>> caller, and is stored in a variable called Root.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus in the H(D) invoked from main, Root == 1.
>>>>>
>>>>> H(D) simulates D, which calls H again. That H(D) executes with Root 
>>>>> == 0.
>>>>>
>>>>> Olcott rigged is so that the Root == 1 H will perform the termination
>>>>> tests to abort the simulation loop, but Root == 0 just simulates
>>>>> unconditionally.
>>>>>
>>>>> That makes them different functions.
>>>>>
>>>>> By doing this, he makes it true that the D simulated by H doesn't
>>>>> terminate, whereas if you call D from main, it does terminate.
>>>>
>>>> Whatever, IMO, 'same function (call)' means the entrance address of the
>>>> function is the same. The HP does not care what the inside, the 
>>>> implement of
>>>> the decider is. But of course, being an 'correct' answer, 'the 
>>>> function' of
>>>> the decider HP requires to be deterministic and portable, i.e. 
>>>> reproducible.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The halting problem as Turing machines or as
>>> C functions requires the halt decider to report
>>> on the behavior of its own caller and no such
>>> halt decider in C or in Turing machines can
>>> possibly know what called it.
>>>
>>> It people were not so damned sure that I must
>>> be wrong they would have paid actual attention
>>> to my words.
>>>
>>> None of the rebuttals to anything that said
>>> ever provided any reasoning showing any mistake.
>>>
>>> Most of the rebuttals were either dishonest
>>> dodges changing the subject the strawman
>>> error of changing the words that I said and
>>> then rebutting the changed words.
>>>
>>> The strongest rebuttals ever made were of
>>> the form: that is not how we learned it
>>> in textbooks.
>>
>> But how do you lean from text book? Ignore all exercises in the text 
>> books or
>> telling yourself they are something boring because none you cannot
>> complete (Why I know is because you cannot answer many much simpler 
>> questions).
>>
>> You have to complete the exercises in the text book to refute the 
>> theorems in it.
>> (I am 95% sure you cannot write a TM that computes the length of it 
>> input.
>> prove me wrong)
>>
> 
> I have known for 28 years that if the halting
> problem is correct then truth itself is broken.
> 
> 

Why did you not it for 30 years?

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Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 03:57 +0800
  Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 20:36 +0000
    Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 05:11 +0800
      Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 15:40 -0600
        Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 06:10 +0800
          Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 16:20 -0600
            Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:35 -0800
              Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:38 -0800
    Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 22:35 +0000
      Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:14 -0600
        Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 23:15 +0000
          Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:30 -0600
            Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 23:39 +0000
              Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:58 -0600
  Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-16 11:05 +0200

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