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Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same?

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On 11/15/2025 2:35 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 11/15/2025 2:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/15/2025 4:10 PM, wij wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2025-11-15 at 15:40 -0600, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 11/15/2025 3:11 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 2025-11-15 at 20:36 +0000, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-11-15, wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> typedef int (*ptr)();
>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> int D()
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>      int Halt_Status = H(D);
>>>>>>>      if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>        HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>      return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>      H(D);
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Recently, olcott constantly pushes: "...the simulated D cannot 
>>>>>>> reach its own simulated
>>>>>>> "return"
>>>>>>> statement..."
>>>>>>> But olcott cannot answer the question (very funny): Are the H(D) 
>>>>>>> in main and the H(D) in D the
>>>>>>> same?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mathematically, they are the same and must be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In his C code, he has put in hacks to try to make them different.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first H invoked from main calls a routine to allocate and 
>>>>>> initialize
>>>>>> a new simulation, along with a trace buffer for execution traces.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That trace buffer is static/shared; it is allocated only once.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hhen the trace buffer is allocated, that function returns 1 to the
>>>>>> caller, and is stored in a variable called Root.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus in the H(D) invoked from main, Root == 1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> H(D) simulates D, which calls H again. That H(D) executes with 
>>>>>> Root == 0.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Olcott rigged is so that the Root == 1 H will perform the termination
>>>>>> tests to abort the simulation loop, but Root == 0 just simulates
>>>>>> unconditionally.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That makes them different functions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By doing this, he makes it true that the D simulated by H doesn't
>>>>>> terminate, whereas if you call D from main, it does terminate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whatever, IMO, 'same function (call)' means the entrance address of 
>>>>> the
>>>>> function is the same. The HP does not care what the inside, the 
>>>>> implement of
>>>>> the decider is. But of course, being an 'correct' answer, 'the 
>>>>> function' of
>>>>> the decider HP requires to be deterministic and portable, i.e. 
>>>>> reproducible.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The halting problem as Turing machines or as
>>>> C functions requires the halt decider to report
>>>> on the behavior of its own caller and no such
>>>> halt decider in C or in Turing machines can
>>>> possibly know what called it.
>>>>
>>>> It people were not so damned sure that I must
>>>> be wrong they would have paid actual attention
>>>> to my words.
>>>>
>>>> None of the rebuttals to anything that said
>>>> ever provided any reasoning showing any mistake.
>>>>
>>>> Most of the rebuttals were either dishonest
>>>> dodges changing the subject the strawman
>>>> error of changing the words that I said and
>>>> then rebutting the changed words.
>>>>
>>>> The strongest rebuttals ever made were of
>>>> the form: that is not how we learned it
>>>> in textbooks.
>>>
>>> But how do you lean from text book? Ignore all exercises in the text 
>>> books or
>>> telling yourself they are something boring because none you cannot
>>> complete (Why I know is because you cannot answer many much simpler 
>>> questions).
>>>
>>> You have to complete the exercises in the text book to refute the 
>>> theorems in it.
>>> (I am 95% sure you cannot write a TM that computes the length of it 
>>> input.
>>> prove me wrong)
>>>
>>
>> I have known for 28 years that if the halting
>> problem is correct then truth itself is broken.

Heck. You should have known that in the womb, right?

> 
> Why did you not it for 30 years?

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Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 03:57 +0800
  Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 20:36 +0000
    Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 05:11 +0800
      Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 15:40 -0600
        Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 06:10 +0800
          Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 16:20 -0600
            Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:35 -0800
              Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:38 -0800
    Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 22:35 +0000
      Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:14 -0600
        Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 23:15 +0000
          Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:30 -0600
            Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 23:39 +0000
              Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:58 -0600
  Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-16 11:05 +0200

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