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Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same?

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On 11/15/2025 4:10 PM, wij wrote:
> On Sat, 2025-11-15 at 15:40 -0600, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/15/2025 3:11 PM, wij wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2025-11-15 at 20:36 +0000, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>> On 2025-11-15, wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> typedef int (*ptr)();
>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);
>>>>>
>>>>> int D()
>>>>> {
>>>>>      int Halt_Status = H(D);
>>>>>      if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>        HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>      return Halt_Status;
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> int main()
>>>>> {
>>>>>      H(D);
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently, olcott constantly pushes: "...the simulated D cannot reach its own simulated
>>>>> "return"
>>>>> statement..."
>>>>> But olcott cannot answer the question (very funny): Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the
>>>>> same?
>>>>
>>>> Mathematically, they are the same and must be.
>>>>
>>>> In his C code, he has put in hacks to try to make them different.
>>>>
>>>> The first H invoked from main calls a routine to allocate and initialize
>>>> a new simulation, along with a trace buffer for execution traces.
>>>>
>>>> That trace buffer is static/shared; it is allocated only once.
>>>>
>>>> Hhen the trace buffer is allocated, that function returns 1 to the
>>>> caller, and is stored in a variable called Root.
>>>>
>>>> Thus in the H(D) invoked from main, Root == 1.
>>>>
>>>> H(D) simulates D, which calls H again. That H(D) executes with Root == 0.
>>>>
>>>> Olcott rigged is so that the Root == 1 H will perform the termination
>>>> tests to abort the simulation loop, but Root == 0 just simulates
>>>> unconditionally.
>>>>
>>>> That makes them different functions.
>>>>
>>>> By doing this, he makes it true that the D simulated by H doesn't
>>>> terminate, whereas if you call D from main, it does terminate.
>>>
>>> Whatever, IMO, 'same function (call)' means the entrance address of the
>>> function is the same. The HP does not care what the inside, the implement of
>>> the decider is. But of course, being an 'correct' answer, 'the function' of
>>> the decider HP requires to be deterministic and portable, i.e. reproducible.
>>>
>>
>> The halting problem as Turing machines or as
>> C functions requires the halt decider to report
>> on the behavior of its own caller and no such
>> halt decider in C or in Turing machines can
>> possibly know what called it.
>>
>> It people were not so damned sure that I must
>> be wrong they would have paid actual attention
>> to my words.
>>
>> None of the rebuttals to anything that said
>> ever provided any reasoning showing any mistake.
>>
>> Most of the rebuttals were either dishonest
>> dodges changing the subject the strawman
>> error of changing the words that I said and
>> then rebutting the changed words.
>>
>> The strongest rebuttals ever made were of
>> the form: that is not how we learned it
>> in textbooks.
> 
> But how do you lean from text book? Ignore all exercises in the text books or
> telling yourself they are something boring because none you cannot
> complete (Why I know is because you cannot answer many much simpler questions).
> 
> You have to complete the exercises in the text book to refute the theorems in it.
> (I am 95% sure you cannot write a TM that computes the length of it input.
> prove me wrong)
> 

I have known for 28 years that if the halting
problem is correct then truth itself is broken.


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 03:57 +0800
  Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 20:36 +0000
    Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 05:11 +0800
      Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 15:40 -0600
        Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 06:10 +0800
          Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 16:20 -0600
            Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:35 -0800
              Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:38 -0800
    Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 22:35 +0000
      Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:14 -0600
        Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 23:15 +0000
          Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:30 -0600
            Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 23:39 +0000
              Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:58 -0600
  Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-16 11:05 +0200

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