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Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same?

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On Sat, 2025-11-15 at 15:40 -0600, olcott wrote:
> On 11/15/2025 3:11 PM, wij wrote:
> > On Sat, 2025-11-15 at 20:36 +0000, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> > > On 2025-11-15, wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > typedef int (*ptr)();
> > > > int HHH(ptr P);
> > > > 
> > > > int D()
> > > > {
> > > >     int Halt_Status = H(D);
> > > >     if (Halt_Status)
> > > >       HERE: goto HERE;
> > > >     return Halt_Status;
> > > > }
> > > > 
> > > > int main()
> > > > {
> > > >     H(D);
> > > > }
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Recently, olcott constantly pushes: "...the simulated D cannot reach its own simulated
> > > > "return"
> > > > statement..."
> > > > But olcott cannot answer the question (very funny): Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the
> > > > same?
> > > 
> > > Mathematically, they are the same and must be.
> > > 
> > > In his C code, he has put in hacks to try to make them different.
> > > 
> > > The first H invoked from main calls a routine to allocate and initialize
> > > a new simulation, along with a trace buffer for execution traces.
> > > 
> > > That trace buffer is static/shared; it is allocated only once.
> > > 
> > > Hhen the trace buffer is allocated, that function returns 1 to the
> > > caller, and is stored in a variable called Root.
> > > 
> > > Thus in the H(D) invoked from main, Root == 1.
> > > 
> > > H(D) simulates D, which calls H again. That H(D) executes with Root == 0.
> > > 
> > > Olcott rigged is so that the Root == 1 H will perform the termination
> > > tests to abort the simulation loop, but Root == 0 just simulates
> > > unconditionally.
> > > 
> > > That makes them different functions.
> > > 
> > > By doing this, he makes it true that the D simulated by H doesn't
> > > terminate, whereas if you call D from main, it does terminate.
> > 
> > Whatever, IMO, 'same function (call)' means the entrance address of the
> > function is the same. The HP does not care what the inside, the implement of
> > the decider is. But of course, being an 'correct' answer, 'the function' of
> > the decider HP requires to be deterministic and portable, i.e. reproducible.
> > 
> 
> The halting problem as Turing machines or as
> C functions requires the halt decider to report
> on the behavior of its own caller and no such
> halt decider in C or in Turing machines can
> possibly know what called it.
> 
> It people were not so damned sure that I must
> be wrong they would have paid actual attention
> to my words.
> 
> None of the rebuttals to anything that said
> ever provided any reasoning showing any mistake.
> 
> Most of the rebuttals were either dishonest
> dodges changing the subject the strawman
> error of changing the words that I said and
> then rebutting the changed words.
> 
> The strongest rebuttals ever made were of
> the form: that is not how we learned it
> in textbooks.

But how do you lean from text book? Ignore all exercises in the text books or
telling yourself they are something boring because none you cannot 
complete (Why I know is because you cannot answer many much simpler questions).

You have to complete the exercises in the text book to refute the theorems in it.
(I am 95% sure you cannot write a TM that computes the length of it input. 
prove me wrong)

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Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 03:57 +0800
  Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 20:36 +0000
    Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 05:11 +0800
      Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 15:40 -0600
        Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 06:10 +0800
          Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 16:20 -0600
            Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:35 -0800
              Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:38 -0800
    Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 22:35 +0000
      Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:14 -0600
        Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 23:15 +0000
          Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:30 -0600
            Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 23:39 +0000
              Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:58 -0600
  Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-16 11:05 +0200

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