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Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same?

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On 11/15/2025 3:11 PM, wij wrote:
> On Sat, 2025-11-15 at 20:36 +0000, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> On 2025-11-15, wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> typedef int (*ptr)();
>>> int HHH(ptr P);
>>>
>>> int D()
>>> {
>>>     int Halt_Status = H(D);
>>>     if (Halt_Status)
>>>       HERE: goto HERE;
>>>     return Halt_Status;
>>> }
>>>
>>> int main()
>>> {
>>>     H(D);
>>> }
>>>
>>>
>>> Recently, olcott constantly pushes: "...the simulated D cannot reach its own simulated "return"
>>> statement..."
>>> But olcott cannot answer the question (very funny): Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the
>>> same?
>>
>> Mathematically, they are the same and must be.
>>
>> In his C code, he has put in hacks to try to make them different.
>>
>> The first H invoked from main calls a routine to allocate and initialize
>> a new simulation, along with a trace buffer for execution traces.
>>
>> That trace buffer is static/shared; it is allocated only once.
>>
>> Hhen the trace buffer is allocated, that function returns 1 to the
>> caller, and is stored in a variable called Root.
>>
>> Thus in the H(D) invoked from main, Root == 1.
>>
>> H(D) simulates D, which calls H again. That H(D) executes with Root == 0.
>>
>> Olcott rigged is so that the Root == 1 H will perform the termination
>> tests to abort the simulation loop, but Root == 0 just simulates
>> unconditionally.
>>
>> That makes them different functions.
>>
>> By doing this, he makes it true that the D simulated by H doesn't
>> terminate, whereas if you call D from main, it does terminate.
> 
> Whatever, IMO, 'same function (call)' means the entrance address of the
> function is the same. The HP does not care what the inside, the implement of
> the decider is. But of course, being an 'correct' answer, 'the function' of
> the decider HP requires to be deterministic and portable, i.e. reproducible.
> 

The halting problem as Turing machines or as
C functions requires the halt decider to report
on the behavior of its own caller and no such
halt decider in C or in Turing machines can
possibly know what called it.

It people were not so damned sure that I must
be wrong they would have paid actual attention
to my words.

None of the rebuttals to anything that said
ever provided any reasoning showing any mistake.

Most of the rebuttals were either dishonest
dodges changing the subject the strawman
error of changing the words that I said and
then rebutting the changed words.

The strongest rebuttals ever made were of
the form: that is not how we learned it
in textbooks.



-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 03:57 +0800
  Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 20:36 +0000
    Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 05:11 +0800
      Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 15:40 -0600
        Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 06:10 +0800
          Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 16:20 -0600
            Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:35 -0800
              Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:38 -0800
    Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 22:35 +0000
      Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:14 -0600
        Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 23:15 +0000
          Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:30 -0600
            Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 23:39 +0000
              Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:58 -0600
  Re: Are the H(D) in main and the H(D) in D the same? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-16 11:05 +0200

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