Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman

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From	Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au>
Newsgroups	sci.physics
Subject	Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman
Date	Wed, 16 May 2018 07:45:13 +1000
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On 15/05/2018 12:27 PM, Wally W. wrote:
> On Tue, 15 May 2018 09:28:58 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> 
>>
>>   Do we simply define "excess" as ANY amount that man
>>> creates whether it does anything or not?
>>
>> **Stupid question. It is now absolutely undeniable that CO2 is causing
>> this planet to warm. Therefore, the excess CO2 is undesirable.
> 
> non sequitur.
> 
> Why "therefore?"
> 
> You are assuming *any* warming is bad.
> 
>> The ONLY
>> question that is uncertain (though it is barely that, since confidence
>> level runs at around 95%) is: Will temperatures rise uncontrollably, if
>> nothing is done to stop CO2 emissions?
> 
> "Uncontrollably?"

**Yes, uncontrollably.

> 
> First, our level of control is doubtful.

**I believe a more correct term would be: 'Uncertain'.

Since we can control CO2 emissions, then we can control how much CO2 
enters the atmosphere. The uncertainty arises from two things:

* The political will of every nation and person on the planet to address 
the problem.
* IF the 'tipping point' has already been reached (as a minority of 
climatologists believe), then no amount of CO2 emissions reduction will 
do much at all.

> 
> If by "uncontrollably" you mean without limit, the answer is obviously
> "no" and it doesn't take a climate scientist to realize that a finite
> system can't warm to an infinite temperature.

**This particular planet has already seen very high CO2 levels and 
average temperatures that exceed the average over the past 1,000 years 
by more than 10 degrees C. A 10 degree C rise would be utterly 
catastrophic for the majority of humans on this planet. Our civilisation 
would be completely altered (in a bad way).

> 
>> There is some debate over this question. And it is the ONLY question
>> under any kind of debate among climatologists. Even the denier's poster
>> boy, Lindzen, agrees that CO2 has warmed this planet.
> 
> 
> <https://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2015/04/07/asking-the-wrong-question/>
> The main issue is not: Is human-caused climate change occurring?
> Repeatedly, Dyson tells us that “the fact that it exists is not a
> question.” To ferociously insist – as politicians and activists do –
> that man-made climate change is real is meaningless. That remark is
> worthy of a child. It demonstrates no sophistication whatsoever.
> 
> The crucial questions are, instead:
> 
> 1. Is humanity’s effect on the climate large or small?

**Given the nature of prior temperature swings, it is self-evident that 
man's influence on the climate is massive. At no time, in at least the 
past million years or so, has the average temperature of the planet 
risen so fast nor so far. In fact, the temperature rise is more than 100 
times more rapid than at any time every recorded. I call that 'massive'.

> 2. Big-picture, is it harmful or helpful?

**Well, that is a complicated question, as different parts and 
populations will be affected in different ways. For instance:

* Here in my own nation, Australia, global warming is rapidly destroying 
the sensitive Great Barrier Reef system. Tens of thousands of jobs are 
at risk. Fish nurseries are being destroyed, thus fish stocks are being 
depleted, costing yet more jobs.

* Places like Bangladesh, NYC, London, Florida, So Cal and others will 
lose valuable real estate (and farming land, in the case of Bangladesh) 
due to even quite small amounts of sea level rise. Larger sea level rise 
(when the Greenland ice sheets melt) will lead to a 7 Metre sea level 
rise. This will spread the catastrophe to many more humans.

* Places like Alaska, Greenland, Northern Canada, Northern China, Russia 
and other places may benefit (though Polar bear won't) with global 
warming. That said, although Greenland has seen increases in arable land 
over the past few decades, their climate has shifted in such a way that 
droughts have been experienced in Greenland for the first time in their 
recorded history. The benefits are uncertain, at best.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/11/17/502349923/climate-change-is-making-greenland-warmer-but-farmers-there-are-struggling

-- 
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Thread

Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-11 18:37 -0500
  Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-05-11 17:21 -0700
    Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-11 21:47 -0400
      Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-11 21:53 -0400
      Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-05-11 19:17 -0700
    Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2018-05-12 09:32 -0700
    Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2018-05-12 09:39 -0700
  Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-11 21:30 -0400
    Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-05-11 18:45 -0700
      Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-11 22:03 -0400
  Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-12 12:03 +1000
    Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-12 14:47 -0400
      Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-13 07:24 +1000
        Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-12 19:44 -0400
          Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-13 19:08 +1000
            Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-13 12:28 -0400
            Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-05-13 12:45 -0400
              Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-13 12:23 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 04:28 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-05-13 14:34 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 05:13 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-05-13 15:31 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 05:47 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-13 16:25 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 07:58 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-13 17:10 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 08:23 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-13 17:31 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-05-13 17:48 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 08:32 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-05-13 18:37 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 08:44 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2018-05-15 11:32 -0700
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman "Shobe, Martin" <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-13 20:36 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-14 11:50 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-14 13:59 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-14 18:13 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-14 17:18 -0500
              Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 04:26 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-05-13 14:30 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 04:35 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-05-13 14:56 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 05:10 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-05-13 15:27 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-05-13 12:48 -0700
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 06:01 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-14 12:07 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-05-13 17:49 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 05:50 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-13 16:39 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 08:29 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-13 18:26 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-05-13 16:46 -0700
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-13 20:04 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2018-05-15 07:18 -0700
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-05-15 10:47 -0700
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-15 14:37 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-15 13:58 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 10:04 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-13 19:58 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 11:01 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-13 20:09 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-17 07:57 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-16 20:18 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-17 12:19 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-17 12:20 -0500
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-05-13 21:33 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-05-13 17:54 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-14 08:00 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-14 12:03 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-14 12:00 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-15 09:11 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-14 11:37 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-15 09:28 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-05-14 22:27 -0400
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-05-15 10:45 -0700
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2018-05-15 11:31 -0700
                Politians will take as much money from you as they possibly can. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-05-15 16:39 -0700
                Re: Politians will take as much money from you as they possibly can. Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-16 09:45 +1000
                Re: Politians will take as much money from you as they possibly can. James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2018-05-15 19:36 -0700
                Re: Politians will take as much money from you as they possibly can. Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-16 19:50 +1000
                Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2018-05-16 07:45 +1000
              Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-14 11:21 -0400
  Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2018-05-12 11:10 -0500
    Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-12 11:53 -0500
    Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2018-05-12 10:39 -0700
      Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-05-12 14:14 -0700
        Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-12 19:09 -0500
      Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2018-05-13 15:38 -0500
    Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-05-12 13:48 -0400
  Re: Global warming is a big fat lie and the science behind it is fake: John Coleman Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-05-13 15:44 -0700

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