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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #671908
| From | Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: How is time really organized |
| Date | 2026-08-09 09:46 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ndqpifFh8p2U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (17 earlier) <6A7571E7.5BC@ix.netcom.com> <ndmhklFre5sU2@mid.individual.net> <6A765FB2.2ECF@ix.netcom.com> <ndnvo1F3pe6U1@mid.individual.net> <6A76D0CF.412@ix.netcom.com> |
Am Samstag000008, 08.08.2026 um 08:46 schrieb The Starmaker: > Thomas Heger wrote: >> >> Am Samstag000008, 08.08.2026 um 00:44 schrieb The Starmaker: >>> Thomas Heger wrote: >>>> >>>> Am Freitag000007, 07.08.2026 um 07:49 schrieb The Starmaker: >>>>> The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thomas Heger wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am Montag000003, 03.08.2026 um 10:03 schrieb The Starmaker: >>>>>>>> On Thu, 30 Jul 2026 06:24:14 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Am Mittwoch000029, 29.07.2026 um 08:14 schrieb The Starmaker: >>>>>>>>>> Thomas Heger wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Am Montag000027, 27.07.2026 um 06:00 schrieb The Starmaker: >>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Heger wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag000025, 25.07.2026 um 08:05 schrieb The Starmaker: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Heger wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag000018, 18.07.2026 um 00:40 schrieb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Natividad Ślusarski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maciej Woźniak wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2026-07-10 14:32:12.000000000 UTC. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no it's not; it's a event stamp regarding an unachievable reference of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past. Time is something completely else. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In physics, there is such such thing as an "event stamp". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An event is a point of (a) spacetime: it has a location in space and a time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The date above lacks a location, so it is just _a_ time (based on a time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard, UTC) -- but not time itself, which is a physical quantity. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, spacetime is 'coordinates free'. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You need an 'anchor point' to define space and time, because points do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not carry labels or calendars. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Somethings you always have as reference is your own position and some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time called 'now'. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, most of the time some 'here-and-now-systems' are used. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But those system are quite arbitrary, because you could possibly be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere else. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, guys say here and now...and girls say this and that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I tell girls, you see this here, well I want that now! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was over here, and now I'm over here. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, here is the REAL here and Now... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is here is here.. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now is very very far away apart from here. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now is everywhere >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is right here. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remove the letter 'W' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remove the letter 'T' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all Here! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about Now? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now is like...WOW! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, how do you measure here from here to over there...Now? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now...all the way to the edige of the universe...Now. It's Now now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over there! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's now now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over here it is the same now as over there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over there! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's now now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What time is it now? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have to look at your watch...you got the wrong time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The time now is...NOW! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What time is it now? Yes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The time is Now! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everywhere!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem of course is...where does Here begin? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here or over there? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Over here. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What time is it now at the edge of the universe? Of course, it's Now. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The hypersheet of the present is actually invisible, because we need >>>>>>>>>>>>> light so see something and that needs time to travel. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So, in effect we can't see the hypersheet of the present, but see along >>>>>>>>>>>>> our own past-light-cone. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT cone HAS borders, because the past begins at the (alleged) big-bang. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So: no, the time at the borders of what you call 'universe' (which is >>>>>>>>>>>>> actually your own past light cone) is, of course, not 'now'! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It would require to define the 'hypersheet of the present' and show, >>>>>>>>>>>>> that THAT would have borders. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But, unfortunately, you cannot know whether or not it has borders, >>>>>>>>>>>>> because you can't see in that direction. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> TH >>>>>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The "cone" is incorrect and misinformation/madeup information. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Before the big bang (proto-universe), Time had no seconds no years. It >>>>>>>>>>>> was eternal time. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The big bang created time in...seconds. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm not a big fan of 'big-bang theory' and personally think, this theory >>>>>>>>>>> is garbage. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I use the term "the big bang" because you guys don't like the word >>>>>>>>>> "created" either. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think, that 'the universe' isn't universe at all, but what we call >>>>>>>>>>> 'universe' is actually our own past light cone. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> That 'universe' is also 'stacked in time', what would make the entire >>>>>>>>>>> picture unreal. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What we see in the night sky does not refelct some sort of reality, but >>>>>>>>>>> is composed of pictures from the past, which have different ages. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I believe one can invent a camera that takes pictures of the past, like >>>>>>>>>> 10 hours agao, or two days ago..which can be used to idenify a 'crime >>>>>>>>>> scene' >>>>>>>>>> as it took place then. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It is very difficult, to artificially correct this error, because the >>>>>>>>>>> universe is so large. And to know what is happening now in -say- 1 >>>>>>>>>>> billion light years distance would require to wait for 1 billion years >>>>>>>>>>> (what we can't). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You can make a phone call with a quantum phone that the signal jumps >>>>>>>>>> a billion light years away, and when the phone rings, and somebody picks >>>>>>>>>> up their phone a billion light years away...You say, "I'm calling from >>>>>>>>>> Earth." >>>>>>>>>> and they will say..."How did you get this number?" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Possibly... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But usual cosmology doesn't use 'quantum phones'. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Instead cosmologists peep through telescopes and gace at distant stars >>>>>>>>> and galaxies. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What is seen in a telescope isn't real and never was and never will be, >>>>>>>>> because the picture is 'layered in time'. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To see the content of the real 'hypersheet of the present' isn't easy, >>>>>>>>> because you can't do that with light. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Possibly there exist other means, which allow to see into the invisible. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But apparently those are classified, if they exist, or they don't exist >>>>>>>>> at all. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is therefore kind of nonsense to discuss 'big-bang', the existence of >>>>>>>>> black holes or how fast gravity propagates, if much simpler questions >>>>>>>>> cannot be solved. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> TH >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Invisible"???? do you mean like ...hiding from us? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nature does not hide. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sure, nature hides lots of things. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What you call 'visible' (from the Latin word 'visio' - 'I see') is >>>>>>> depending on your eyes and your point of view. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Both aspects restrict the visibility of real things greatly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is therefore nonsense to require visibility, if you want to call >>>>>>> something 'real'. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Visibility is obviously restricted by the frequency of the received waves. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Human eyes are quite picky in respect to that and respond only to a very >>>>>>> narrow spectrum. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also the locations would matter, if you want to see something. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> E.g. you cannot see the 'backside' of the Moon, if you stand on planet >>>>>>> Earth, even if that side of the Moon is oviously real. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Than we have restrictions of the kind of interaction, because our eyes >>>>>>> do not respond to anything else than em-radiation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> E.g. longitudinal waves or particle beams cannot be seen, even if they >>>>>>> exist. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Next nasty thing is time: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> you cannot look into the past nor into the future, for instance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> TH >>>>>> >>>>>> I look at your...response and I seem to see a lot of...hot air. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Of course, they say air is invisible... >>>>> >>>>> is water invisible to a fish? >>>> most likely the fish 'thinks' he's flying. >>>> >>>> ... >>>> >>>> TH >>> >>> >>> Air is visible. The color of air is Blue. >>> >>> From space it is a Blue Dot. >>> >>> You can look up and it's blue. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> You're walking on air... >>> >>> Actually, you are standing on the bottom of the blue ocean called...air. >>> >>> Get off my blue dot. >>> >> Sure, but the question was slightly different: >> >> "is water invisible to a fish?" >> >> And since you are not a fish, you don't know, whether or not fish would >> see water as blue. >> >> To me it would make some sense, if the brain of a fish would filter the >> water out. >> >> TH > > > I didn't say the ocean where fish live is blue... > > I wrote: "Actually, you are standing on the bottom of the blue ocean > called...air." > > > That means, on the ground where people are standing...all the way up to > the sky is Blue... > > you live in an ocean of Air. Ok, that's nice very nice poetry, but doesn't cover the question, whether or not fish would see the water. > > From toe to all the way up is sky...the blue sky. > > The SKY starts on the ground where you stand Looks like, but ain't the case. > The sky begins on the ground where you stand and goes all the way up to > the end of sky. > > If you have problem with simple terms... > > atmosphere is sky. That's wrong, because what we call 'sky' goes way beyond the atmosphere. TH
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How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-17 13:36 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Natividad Ślusarski <rsi@val.pl> - 2026-07-17 12:10 +0000
Re: How is time really organized Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-07-18 00:40 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Cale Balabuha <eah@baal.ru> - 2026-07-17 23:04 +0000
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-18 06:34 +0200
Re: How is time really organized "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-07-19 10:44 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-19 15:55 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-20 06:18 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-20 07:39 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Ivo Balakirev <vaovb@kkrea.ru> - 2026-07-20 10:12 +0000
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-22 08:36 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-20 10:44 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-23 07:26 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-23 09:26 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Fayv Bakharev <kerv@aaaah.ru> - 2026-07-23 18:10 +0000
Re: How is time really organized Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-23 15:16 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-20 07:37 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-20 08:28 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-22 08:28 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-22 09:41 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-23 07:33 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-23 07:52 +0200
Re: How is time really organized "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-07-20 13:13 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-20 17:21 +0200
Re: How is time really organized "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-07-22 20:44 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-22 22:14 +0200
Re: How is time really organized "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-07-23 13:56 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-23 14:45 +0200
Re: How is time really organized "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-07-24 12:02 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-24 12:41 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Barton Valetov <btaovl@lln.ru> - 2026-07-23 12:54 +0000
Re: How is time really organized Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2026-07-23 15:54 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-23 08:31 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-22 08:41 +0200
Re: How is time really organized "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-07-22 20:59 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-22 15:48 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-22 15:05 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-22 15:16 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-24 11:26 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-24 11:42 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-24 21:14 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-24 23:05 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-25 11:29 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-26 09:12 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Vidal Bahovtsev <tald@lb.ru> - 2026-07-26 13:33 +0000
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-26 21:00 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-29 07:12 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-28 23:14 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-30 06:24 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-08-03 01:03 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-08-05 07:19 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-08-06 16:39 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-08-06 22:49 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-08-07 19:06 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-08-07 15:44 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-08-08 08:13 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-08-07 23:46 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-08-09 09:46 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-08-09 01:12 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-08-09 10:26 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-08-09 11:23 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-08-07 19:05 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-27 12:05 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-22 15:21 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Dolph Bazulev <vblpb@vuu.ru> - 2026-07-23 21:16 +0000
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