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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #671893
| From | Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: How is time really organized |
| Date | 2026-08-08 08:13 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ndnvo1F3pe6U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (15 earlier) <ndfve5Fhh0aU1@mid.individual.net> <6A751B40.3C93@ix.netcom.com> <6A7571E7.5BC@ix.netcom.com> <ndmhklFre5sU2@mid.individual.net> <6A765FB2.2ECF@ix.netcom.com> |
Am Samstag000008, 08.08.2026 um 00:44 schrieb The Starmaker: > Thomas Heger wrote: >> >> Am Freitag000007, 07.08.2026 um 07:49 schrieb The Starmaker: >>> The Starmaker wrote: >>>> >>>> Thomas Heger wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Am Montag000003, 03.08.2026 um 10:03 schrieb The Starmaker: >>>>>> On Thu, 30 Jul 2026 06:24:14 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Am Mittwoch000029, 29.07.2026 um 08:14 schrieb The Starmaker: >>>>>>>> Thomas Heger wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Am Montag000027, 27.07.2026 um 06:00 schrieb The Starmaker: >>>>>>>>>> Thomas Heger wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag000025, 25.07.2026 um 08:05 schrieb The Starmaker: >>>>>>>>>>>> The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Heger wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag000018, 18.07.2026 um 00:40 schrieb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Natividad Ślusarski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maciej Woźniak wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2026-07-10 14:32:12.000000000 UTC. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no it's not; it's a event stamp regarding an unachievable reference of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past. Time is something completely else. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In physics, there is such such thing as an "event stamp". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An event is a point of (a) spacetime: it has a location in space and a time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The date above lacks a location, so it is just _a_ time (based on a time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard, UTC) -- but not time itself, which is a physical quantity. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, spacetime is 'coordinates free'. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You need an 'anchor point' to define space and time, because points do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not carry labels or calendars. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Somethings you always have as reference is your own position and some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time called 'now'. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, most of the time some 'here-and-now-systems' are used. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But those system are quite arbitrary, because you could possibly be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere else. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, guys say here and now...and girls say this and that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I tell girls, you see this here, well I want that now! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was over here, and now I'm over here. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, here is the REAL here and Now... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is here is here.. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now is very very far away apart from here. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now is everywhere >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is right here. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remove the letter 'W' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remove the letter 'T' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's all Here! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about Now? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now is like...WOW! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, how do you measure here from here to over there...Now? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> There. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now...all the way to the edige of the universe...Now. It's Now now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> over there! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's now now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> over here it is the same now as over there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> over there! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's now now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What time is it now? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have to look at your watch...you got the wrong time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The time now is...NOW! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What time is it now? Yes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The time is Now! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everywhere!! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem of course is...where does Here begin? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Here or over there? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Over here. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What time is it now at the edge of the universe? Of course, it's Now. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The hypersheet of the present is actually invisible, because we need >>>>>>>>>>> light so see something and that needs time to travel. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So, in effect we can't see the hypersheet of the present, but see along >>>>>>>>>>> our own past-light-cone. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> THAT cone HAS borders, because the past begins at the (alleged) big-bang. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So: no, the time at the borders of what you call 'universe' (which is >>>>>>>>>>> actually your own past light cone) is, of course, not 'now'! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It would require to define the 'hypersheet of the present' and show, >>>>>>>>>>> that THAT would have borders. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But, unfortunately, you cannot know whether or not it has borders, >>>>>>>>>>> because you can't see in that direction. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> TH >>>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The "cone" is incorrect and misinformation/madeup information. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Before the big bang (proto-universe), Time had no seconds no years. It >>>>>>>>>> was eternal time. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The big bang created time in...seconds. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm not a big fan of 'big-bang theory' and personally think, this theory >>>>>>>>> is garbage. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I use the term "the big bang" because you guys don't like the word >>>>>>>> "created" either. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think, that 'the universe' isn't universe at all, but what we call >>>>>>>>> 'universe' is actually our own past light cone. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That 'universe' is also 'stacked in time', what would make the entire >>>>>>>>> picture unreal. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What we see in the night sky does not refelct some sort of reality, but >>>>>>>>> is composed of pictures from the past, which have different ages. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I believe one can invent a camera that takes pictures of the past, like >>>>>>>> 10 hours agao, or two days ago..which can be used to idenify a 'crime >>>>>>>> scene' >>>>>>>> as it took place then. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is very difficult, to artificially correct this error, because the >>>>>>>>> universe is so large. And to know what is happening now in -say- 1 >>>>>>>>> billion light years distance would require to wait for 1 billion years >>>>>>>>> (what we can't). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can make a phone call with a quantum phone that the signal jumps >>>>>>>> a billion light years away, and when the phone rings, and somebody picks >>>>>>>> up their phone a billion light years away...You say, "I'm calling from >>>>>>>> Earth." >>>>>>>> and they will say..."How did you get this number?" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Possibly... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But usual cosmology doesn't use 'quantum phones'. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Instead cosmologists peep through telescopes and gace at distant stars >>>>>>> and galaxies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What is seen in a telescope isn't real and never was and never will be, >>>>>>> because the picture is 'layered in time'. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To see the content of the real 'hypersheet of the present' isn't easy, >>>>>>> because you can't do that with light. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Possibly there exist other means, which allow to see into the invisible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But apparently those are classified, if they exist, or they don't exist >>>>>>> at all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is therefore kind of nonsense to discuss 'big-bang', the existence of >>>>>>> black holes or how fast gravity propagates, if much simpler questions >>>>>>> cannot be solved. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> TH >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Invisible"???? do you mean like ...hiding from us? >>>>>> >>>>>> Nature does not hide. >>>>> >>>>> Sure, nature hides lots of things. >>>>> >>>>> What you call 'visible' (from the Latin word 'visio' - 'I see') is >>>>> depending on your eyes and your point of view. >>>>> >>>>> Both aspects restrict the visibility of real things greatly. >>>>> >>>>> It is therefore nonsense to require visibility, if you want to call >>>>> something 'real'. >>>>> >>>>> Visibility is obviously restricted by the frequency of the received waves. >>>>> >>>>> Human eyes are quite picky in respect to that and respond only to a very >>>>> narrow spectrum. >>>>> >>>>> Also the locations would matter, if you want to see something. >>>>> >>>>> E.g. you cannot see the 'backside' of the Moon, if you stand on planet >>>>> Earth, even if that side of the Moon is oviously real. >>>>> >>>>> Than we have restrictions of the kind of interaction, because our eyes >>>>> do not respond to anything else than em-radiation. >>>>> >>>>> E.g. longitudinal waves or particle beams cannot be seen, even if they >>>>> exist. >>>>> >>>>> Next nasty thing is time: >>>>> >>>>> you cannot look into the past nor into the future, for instance. >>>>> >>>>> TH >>>> >>>> I look at your...response and I seem to see a lot of...hot air. >>> >>> >>> Of course, they say air is invisible... >>> >>> is water invisible to a fish? >> most likely the fish 'thinks' he's flying. >> >> ... >> >> TH > > > Air is visible. The color of air is Blue. > > From space it is a Blue Dot. > > You can look up and it's blue. > > > > > You're walking on air... > > Actually, you are standing on the bottom of the blue ocean called...air. > > Get off my blue dot. > Sure, but the question was slightly different: "is water invisible to a fish?" And since you are not a fish, you don't know, whether or not fish would see water as blue. To me it would make some sense, if the brain of a fish would filter the water out. TH
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How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-17 13:36 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Natividad Ślusarski <rsi@val.pl> - 2026-07-17 12:10 +0000
Re: How is time really organized Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-07-18 00:40 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Cale Balabuha <eah@baal.ru> - 2026-07-17 23:04 +0000
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-18 06:34 +0200
Re: How is time really organized "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-07-19 10:44 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-19 15:55 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-20 06:18 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-20 07:39 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Ivo Balakirev <vaovb@kkrea.ru> - 2026-07-20 10:12 +0000
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-22 08:36 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-20 10:44 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-23 07:26 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-23 09:26 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Fayv Bakharev <kerv@aaaah.ru> - 2026-07-23 18:10 +0000
Re: How is time really organized Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-23 15:16 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-20 07:37 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-20 08:28 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-22 08:28 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-22 09:41 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-23 07:33 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-23 07:52 +0200
Re: How is time really organized "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-07-20 13:13 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-20 17:21 +0200
Re: How is time really organized "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-07-22 20:44 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-22 22:14 +0200
Re: How is time really organized "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-07-23 13:56 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-23 14:45 +0200
Re: How is time really organized "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-07-24 12:02 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-07-24 12:41 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Barton Valetov <btaovl@lln.ru> - 2026-07-23 12:54 +0000
Re: How is time really organized Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2026-07-23 15:54 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-23 08:31 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-22 08:41 +0200
Re: How is time really organized "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-07-22 20:59 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-22 15:48 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-22 15:05 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-22 15:16 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-24 11:26 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-24 11:42 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-24 21:14 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-24 23:05 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-25 11:29 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-26 09:12 +0200
Re: How is time really organized Vidal Bahovtsev <tald@lb.ru> - 2026-07-26 13:33 +0000
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-26 21:00 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-29 07:12 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-28 23:14 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-07-30 06:24 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-08-03 01:03 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-08-05 07:19 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-08-06 16:39 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-08-06 22:49 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-08-07 19:06 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-08-07 15:44 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-08-08 08:13 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-08-07 23:46 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-08-07 19:05 +0200
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-27 12:05 -0700
Re: How is time really organized The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-07-22 15:21 -0700
Re: How is time really organized Dolph Bazulev <vblpb@vuu.ru> - 2026-07-23 21:16 +0000
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