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Re: My instantaneous point of view

Path csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: My instantaneous point of view
Date Fri, 26 Aug 2016 12:05:31 +1000
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On 26/08/2016 12:02 PM, John Gogo wrote:
> On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 8:51:28 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 26/08/2016 8:29 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>> On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 1:02:30 AM UTC-5, Sylvia Else
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 25/08/2016 11:52 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 9:54:26 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 24/08/2016 1:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 12:18:12 AM UTC-5, Sylvia
>>>>>>> Else wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22/08/2016 1:39 PM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:30:11 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>> John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:22:05 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>>> John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:03:52 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>>>> John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 9:17:46 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would take about two seconds if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go/come to Earth, one second if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one-way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, not instantaneous then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, not any signal. But, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation of the "largeness of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen"(determined by maximum visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acuity) is instantaneous.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose we had a large screen on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moon, but it was initially covered up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then, when a laser pulse hits the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retro-reflector, the large screen was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uncovered. Do you maintain that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> largeness of the screen could be observed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before the returning laser pulse reaches
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Earth?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, this is what I have been trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to observe the photons representing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> largeness of the screen before the photons in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the returning laser pulse, the former would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to travel faster than the latter. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would they travel faster? How would they know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they should travel faster?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You are treating "retina" like a machine to
>>>>>>>>>>>> measure "photons" from which the very nature
>>>>>>>>>>>> of its' meaning is traveling. Don't think like
>>>>>>>>>>>> this. Think about why the object is large as it
>>>>>>>>>>>> is and what makes this possible. Then you go
>>>>>>>>>>>> right away to the screen of photons. Don't do
>>>>>>>>>>>> this. Instead, compare the image of the screen-
>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1,2,3 in seconds vs. the signal that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> satellite sends back.
>>>>>>>>>>> This is the only way you are going to spatially
>>>>>>>>>>> be able to tell a time difference.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm just giving you the facts here... you can like
>>>>>>>>>> it or not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For instance, the Jupiter moon measure... I refuse
>>>>>>>>> to believe that the 22 minutes of the six month
>>>>>>>>> variation of occultation of the Jupiter's two main
>>>>>>>>> moons have anything to do with the speed of light. I
>>>>>>>>> believe the 22 minutes means something else. Now, I
>>>>>>>>> know what the 22 minutes means to you, but do you
>>>>>>>>> know what the 22 minutes mean to me?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why would you not believe? It's an elegantly simple
>>>>>>>> explanation for what's observed, and is entirely
>>>>>>>> consistent with what we know about light. It seems
>>>>>>>> bizarre in the extreme for you to want to believe that
>>>>>>>> the cause is something else when we clearly understand
>>>>>>>> what's happening.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You might as well believe in undetectable dragons.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, you are like one in the audience during a magicians
>>>>>>> performance and the magician is like nature. When the
>>>>>>> woman appears to be sawed in half- you believe the woman
>>>>>>> is really being sawed in half- right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know how you get there. The fact that the
>>>>>> apparently sawn-in-half woman is still alive suggests that
>>>>>> the women-really-sawn-in-half model is flawed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As yet, there's nothing to suggest that the model of light
>>>>>> is flawed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>
>>>>> My point is we can place screens far on Earth- like the one's
>>>>> in famous toothed-wheel experiments- placed on mountain tops
>>>>> to derive a measurable quantity which proves that screens can
>>>>> be observed BEFORE signals.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, it's your theory. You need to do the experiment. Given
>>>> its conflict with the well established existing theory, no one
>>>> else is going to do it.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> The phenomenon occurs naturally. There is evidence out there like
>>> the 1950's naval experiments where sight triangulation occurred
>>> instantly and the radar "fell short". The main problem is how
>>> science interprets the results.
>>>
>>
>> Instead of providing vague references, which people cannot check,
>> why not provide links to official documents?
>>
>> Sylvia.
> Well, when you write the great story of physics- there tends to be
> predominate form of thought process. For instance, this is the so and
> so main theory- but it does not exist without its' paradoxes. If
> mankind will exist for another million or billion years, our science
> it bound to change. I know this sounds unconvincing and abstract...
> but maybe, it is the abstract that we must painfully adventure.
>

It's very unconvincing. The mere fact that science will progress in the 
future doesn't mean that any theory that emerges from a bodily orifice 
has merit.

Sylvia.

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Thread

Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:19 -0700
  Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:22 -0700
    Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:25 -0700
      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-19 18:45 -0700
        Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-20 13:34 +1000
          Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-20 13:17 -0700
            Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-21 12:40 +1000
              Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 16:41 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 11:31 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 18:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 18:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 12:17 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 19:48 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:03 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 13:21 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:26 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 14:29 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:22 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:30 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:39 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 15:18 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 08:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-24 12:54 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-24 18:52 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-25 16:02 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 15:29 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 11:51 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:02 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 12:05 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:09 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 12:40 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 13:43 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:50 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:58 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:06 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 13:45 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 19:46 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 19:47 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-28 12:59 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 21:11 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-28 15:19 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 20:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-30 14:18 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 20:23 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 21:32 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-30 15:11 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 18:08 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 11:28 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 19:36 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 19:41 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 12:57 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 20:07 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 13:45 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 17:37 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 11:49 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 18:59 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 13:54 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:26 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 19:08 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 14:00 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:14 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:18 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 11:33 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 17:37 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-01 08:53 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 20:09 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 18:53 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:29 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:50 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Jonathan Doolin <good4usoul@gmail.com> - 2016-09-04 04:57 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 17:25 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 20:59 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:05 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:12 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 20:56 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:03 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-05 20:55 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-05 21:07 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 21:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 22:23 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Jonathan Doolin <good4usoul@gmail.com> - 2016-09-07 06:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-08-21 23:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:12 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:14 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:17 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:19 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:22 -0700

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